Quoting hal9g:

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Here we are two months after the release of this new functionality in DVDP 3.0, and it appears that we still have users that do not quite understand how the field is supposed to be used.

So I thought perhaps a discussion of this field might be in order.

This is a direct quote from the Rules:

"Use the "As Credited" field where the person's name differs from the credited name"

Admittedly, it probably would have been better if it had actually said:

"Use the "As Credited" field where the person's Common Name differs from the name used in the actual film credits"

Perhaps Ken will make this modification for reasons of clarity.

Please let me know if you think that my modification is incorrect, but that is how I understand the field is to be used.

I agree and in actuality, both a common name and a 'credited as' name are present in every name already. The program assumes that they are the same and populates both with the same data (concatenating the name fields into one 'credited as' field). This differs from Original Title where the Original Title is originally blank and assumed to be the Title unless data is entered. With names, there's data in both places and the default is that they'll match unless we change them.

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So how do we actually apply this when editing a profile.

As I see it, it is pretty straightforward.  When you are entering, or editing cast lists, if the name in the actor list (the Common Name) in DVDP is different than the name in the actual film credits, then you enter the name that you actually see in the actual film credits in the "Credited As" Field.

However, you do not change the name in the actor list (the Common Name) to match the name in the actual film credits, since that in effect is defeating the whole purpose of having two separate fields. 

I agree. The source for the 'credited as' name is the film credits. The source for the common name is debatable. Some put links in their contribution notes to prove a common name, but as yet, there is no single source. But in the absence of sources, there's no basis to change the existing name. The credits of one film do not prove a common name and are therefore irrelevant.

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If the Common Name and the actual film credit are the same, then you don't need to enter anything in the "Credited As" field.  It should only be used when they are different.

True to a point. The 'credited as' data is always there and is therefore already "used". It's just that the program assumes they're the same unless you change it. But the data is there, unlike Birth Year or Original Title which are blank unless "used".

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So, enter actual film credits into the "As Credited" field.  Do not create a new Common Name in the actor list to match the actual film credit (unless of course no Common Name already exists).

If there's a name in the profile already, both the 'common name' and 'credited as' data is present. You can use film credit data to support a change of the 'credited as' data.

If you want to change the common name, there is no currently agreed upon source. You try your best with that part.

Quoting m.cellophane:

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The program assumes that they are the same and populates both with the same data (concatenating the name fields into one 'credited as' field). This differs from Original Title where the Original Title is originally blank and assumed to be the Title unless data is entered. With names, there's data in both places and the default is that they'll match unless we change them.

Not that it really matters for the purpose of this topic, but that's not true. While the program fills the Credited As field in the dialog box where you enter the data, it does not store the Credited As name if it matches the concatenated common name.

Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
Here we are two months after the release of this new functionality in DVDP 3.0, and it appears that we still have users that do not quite understand how the field is supposed to be used.

So I thought perhaps a discussion of this field might be in order.

This is a direct quote from the Rules:

"Use the "As Credited" field where the person's name differs from the credited name"

Admittedly, it probably would have been better if it had actually said:

"Use the "As Credited" field where the person's Common Name differs from the name used in the actual film credits"

Perhaps Ken will make this modification for reasons of clarity.

Please let me know if you think that my modification is incorrect, but that is how I understand the field is to be used.

So how do we actually apply this when editing a profile.

As I see it, it is pretty straightforward.  When you are entering, or editing cast lists, if the name in the actor list (the Common Name) in DVDP is different than the name in the actual film credits, then you enter the name that you actually see in the actual film credits in the "Credited As" Field.

However, you do not change the name in the actor list (the Common Name) to match the name in the actual film credits, since that in effect is defeating the whole purpose of having two separate fields. 

If the Common Name and the actual film credit are the same, then you don't need to enter anything in the "Credited As" field.  It should only be used when they are different.

So, enter actual film credits into the "As Credited" field.  Do not create a new Common Name in the actor list to match the actual film credit (unless of course no Common Name already exists).

WHERE is the standard, Hal. How are we to determine just exactly what a common name is, what parameters. Birth name, name used in first film, most commonly credited name(and how is that determined)? I have said before that without a standard foir the data we are NOWHERE.

Somebody tell me what the standard is and I will implement it immediately. Using your words, Hal TWO MONTHS later and we appear absolutely no closer to a standard today than we were then. Thus far, Ken has not taken matters into his hands. So we either have to wait for Ken or come up with a Standard for Determining Common Name ourselves or see the Feature Request section for a NEW idea. Or maybe an expansion of an old idea.

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Quoting Gerri Cole:

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Ken has definite plans for this feature. He has heard the issues and has an idea in mind that should meet your concerns. He understands that it is currently an issue, unfortunately, he has been working through some other items first. Actually at this exact moment, he is under the weather. 

-Gerri

Well, give Ken our best.  I certainly hope he feels better soon.

That being said, I can certainly see both sides of this issue.  I am on the 'wait for Ken' side but can see how some people want it 'now'.

Once again, an attempt is being made to divert this thread into a discussion on an entirely different topic.

This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with determining Common Names.

It has to do with entering "Credited As" names from the actual film credits into the appropriate field when the actual film credit is different than the name that appears in the actor list (the Common Name).  It makes no difference at all what the Common Name is.  If the actual film credit is different, it should be entered in the "Credited As" field NOT the Common Name field.

Contrary to what is being stated above, entering the actual film credit in the "Credited As" field does not require any standard for Common Names.  This is about a completely different topic!

Exactrly Kevin, which is why I refuse to do ANYTHING but AS CREDITED until we have a standard. And don't let the turkeys keep you down Kevin, there are some users here who don't get it, they don't seem to understand about a standard that has to be applied for ALL of us, and are simply attempting to enforce a Rule based upon their own personal interpretation...which will eventually lead to disaster for the database. Most of us have Been There and Seen That and don't want to go there AGAIN. So, in the absence of the Community producing a standard (which I don't think they can, I said that two months ago and I haven't been proven wrong..yet, though I would like to be) then we MUST of necessity wait to see what Ken has up his sleeve.

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Quoting hal9g:

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Once again, an attempt is being made to divert this thread into a discussion on an entirely different topic.

This thread has nothing whatsoever to do with determining Common Names.

It has to do with entering "Credited As" names from the actual film credits into the appropriate field when the actual film credit is different than the name that appears in the actor list (the Common Name).  It makes no difference at all what the Common Name is.  If the actual film credit is different, it should be entered in the "Credited As" field NOT the Common Name field.

Maybe I'm just not seeing this clearly, but I don't quite understand how you can separate the two.

I don't understand how you can discuss the "Credited As" field without discussing what exactly an actor's "Common Name" is.  The "Actor List" you mention (as far as I understand it) is not a definitive list of "Common Names".  It's just a list of actor names currently in the database.  I see tons of duplicate names, some with initials, some without, some with middle names, some without, etc.  It's just a big glob of what people have entered so far, that we may or may not trust.  And actually, I'm not even sure if the "Actor List" I see is only of the movies I have in my database or whether it's a system wide "Actor List" of every movie entered in the system (and that determination actually has a huge bearing on my argument).

When using the "Credited As" field it makes a huge difference what the "Common Name" is because that's the name that should be entered.  Otherwise you risk breaking links to every other movie that actor has been in.

I'm new to this part of the process so this is one thing I don't fully understand just yet and this will help me alot with understanding how all this works.  Going back to the "Actor List" we see when entering credits.  If it really is a system wide listing of all actor's throughout the entire database then I see your point.  If a variation of the actor's name already exists, then use that as the Common Name and use whatever is in the actual credits as their "Credited As".  That's assuming the first movie they were ever credited in uses the most common name they go by, but I don't think it's that simple.  Especially because of the variations already present in the listings.  If the "Actor List" we see is somehow related to only the movies we own then there's a huge problem with that as the name's you see (or don't see) may effect the linking with other users databases.

-edit-
Okay, I'm a little slow in posting so part of I was thinking was answered.  I'm curious about the last part though.  Are we seeing the complete Actor List when editing the Cast/Crew in the profiles?  (Common sense tells me, yes, but it's better to ask and look like an idiot, then to just assume)