Quoting T!M:

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A user is trying to update a profile for 'Grease' in this manner:



While I like the use of dividers this way (and often use them myself), I don't think this particular update is allowed by the rules, so I've voted against it. Why? Because the rules say: "For any film with standard credits, take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits and in exactly the same order credited." The decisive factor in this for me is that that these two dividers ONLY appear in the animated opening credits, but NOT in the complete cast list in the end credits.

Am I correct in voting 'no'? The contributor argues that dividers are not specifically mentioned in that part of the rules, and that as such, the rule doesn't apply with regards to dividers. To me, it seems that the phrase "take the actor information from the end credits only, with names and roles listed exactly as they are in the credits" covers it all, including dividers. Had these dividers been in the end credits, then I would have welcomed this contribution. As it is, I don't think they can/should be entered. So, am I right or wrong on this?

Edit: I meant "appear in the end credits" (poll option), obviously... 

First, the rule also says "standard" credits.  Who knows what standard credits are?  Many movies only have the actors listed in the opening credits, especially if they are older.  I work FIRST from the end credits, if present, and then supplement with opening credits as required.  Same with crew.

In this case, I would probably vote NO also, because there are no dividers in the end credits (assuming you are correct on that) and that is the primary source.

Quoting Dan W:

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I suppose you folks have a method of telling the difference from this use of a divider and the dividers which indicate different titles on a single disc or individual episodes.

And therein lies the problem.  Using one tool to accomplish different tasks.  We're constantly being told to wait to use "credited as" and "BY" because these features aren't finished yet.  I would submit that, until we get tabs or some other kind of delineator, perhaps this feature isn't finished yet...at least not in the way it's being used.

Personally, I'm unhappy even having features if we're not allowed to use them, but that's another subject.

Quoting Lopek:

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Quoting Rifter:

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First, the rule also says "standard" credits.  Who knows what standard credits are?

Erm... anyone who reads the rules...

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For the purposes of this section we define "standard" film credits as those where all credited actors involved are listed together in a single section at the end of the film - defined here as the "end credits". The section details both the actor’s Name and the Role that they played in the film. The credits may be listed "in order of appearance", "alphabetical order" or in an order of importance decided by the filmmakers. Some actors may be credited a second time in either credits at either the opening or close of the film.

Yeah, you're confused alright.  That definition is what the ideal "standard credits" are.  Not all movies are set up that way, so that blows the hell out of "standard" credits, doesn't it, wiseguy?  Standard credits are whatever the credits are in any particular movie.  You can't even say that "most" movies use the same format and call THAT standard, because that changes over time as well.

And, finally, you are obviously incapable of recognizing a rhetorical question when you read one.  Maybe we should send an English tutor over there to help you out, eh?

I agree with Lopek here:

AFAIU, the rules tell us to look for standard credits on a DVD to obtain C&C data. Standard credits are defined as "End Credits" in the rules. Doesn't matter if someone agrees with this definition, it's there and needs to be followed.

So, in my understanding, once I find End Credits on a DVD, I have found the standard credits that must be used only to obtain C&C data.

Only in the absence of end credits as defined by the rules, I may look to the Credits at the beginning of the movie or credits printed on the box to gather information.

It it's completely irrelevant if the defined standard actually is THE standard used in films, or was this standard, or will be this standard: we've got our own rules, we follow them, and if in time we find them insufficient (maybe because the standards of the film industry have changed so much, our standard isn't even close to their standard anymore) we may propose, discuss and eventually agree on a rule change (fat chance of that happening, but that's another story...).

Until then: stick with the rules, stop trying to misinterpret them at every single turn, stop conjuring up freak ideas just because someone you don't agree with on a regular basis said something regarding the rules, and set up the profiles the way they're supposed to be.

But then again, I, too, might not be able to grasp the fine nuances of linguistic skills brought to this board by some.

I would have agree and say no, since the credits used should be the ones at the end of the film, which are the standard credits. Now if it was a tv series, then I would use both the opening credits for the main cast and the ending credits for the guest stars.

Quoting skipnet50:

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Opening Credits are irrelevant. If the dividers are from the end credits then I would have no problem but IF the user is trying to blend Opening and End Credits to produce this result hen he is WRONG and I would have to vote NO.

Skip

Agreed, except about the "hen"