Quoting hal9g:

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Quoting Voltaire53:

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Can someone explain simply, without biting my head off or directing me to a 6-page thread, why a theme tune is NOT considered to be part of a score for a film or TV programme. Sure the score is the non-song music which comprises a film soundtrack - which is made up of a combination of the theme and the background music, which may (or may not) be written by the same person.

No one is saying that it is not part of the score.
The current definition of Composer for DVDP purposes, says that it is the person who "wrote the Original Score", not the person who wrote "part of the Original Score".

By this argument if two people collaborate on a score, neither of them did the whole thing so neither should be credited.
The theme and background music (IMO) are (as you agree) parts of the score so this is exactly the same as two people working together to produce the score. Just because they produced their parts totally separately and at different times doesn't exclude both from being credited as "composers who created the whole score together" ... agin IMO of course... and I also agree a separate theme credit would help clear this up!

Quoting Voltaire53:

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Quoting hal9g:

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Quoting Voltaire53:

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Can someone explain simply, without biting my head off or directing me to a 6-page thread, why a theme tune is NOT considered to be part of a score for a film or TV programme. Sure the score is the non-song music which comprises a film soundtrack - which is made up of a combination of the theme and the background music, which may (or may not) be written by the same person.

No one is saying that it is not part of the score.
The current definition of Composer for DVDP purposes, says that it is the person who "wrote the Original Score", not the person who wrote "part of the Original Score".

By this argument if two people collaborate on a score, neither of them did the whole thing so neither should be credited.
The theme and background music (IMO) are (as you agree) parts of the score so this is exactly the same as two people working together to produce the score. Just because they produced their parts totally separately and at different times doesn't exclude both from being credited as "composers who created the whole score together" ... agin IMO of course... and I also agree a separate theme credit would help clear this up!

Sorry, but collaborating on the creation of the entire movie score, from beginning to end, is not the same as one person creating a "Theme Song" and then the "Composer" determining how and when to use that single piece of music throughout the movie score.  The first person is not "collaborating" on the score in that case, they are simply contributing a piece of music to be utilized by the "Composer".  Giving them equal credit is just wrong, IMHO.

Quoting hal9g:

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The fact that this poll asks a completely different question than the other poll, is either not apparent to some folks or is irrelevant when it comes to taking a shot.

Maybe they skipped over the title and options? 

Quoting lyonsden5:

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Personally I've skipped the whole topic (all three threads).  I try to stay out of the crew credit issues. Until they become an as credited situation I skip right by them when checking a profile.

Probably wise! 

Quoting T!M:

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Quoting skipnet50:

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ROFLMAO, Tim. Are you related to Al gore. I don't the vote came out i want a recount.

Give me a break.

Skip

Please just answer my questions instead of useless posts like this? For instance: do you, or do you not agree that Danny Elfman's theme is a very large part of the music of 'Sledge Hammer!'? Do you, or do you not agree that since he's NEVER provided a score for any of the episodes of 'Sledge Hammer!', that we cannot credit him as "composer"? Do you, or do you not agree that using your logic, we have NO option to credit Danny Elfman at all for his contribution to 'Sledge Hammer!', regardless of his weekly credit for composing the theme? And if so, wouldn't you agree that that's a shame?

As for your "witty" remark: did you notice that the vote came out in my favour, albeit slightly? So...  I really don't see your point. I DO however, see the point of this second poll, as quite a number of people voted for the option to keep Mike Post credited as "composer". I didn't even consider it, but along the way someone pointed out that the rules don't even allow that. That's why I started a new thread: to point out that either we reach a compromise to use the "song writer" credit, or we're just going to lose all "theme" credits that are not written by the movie/tv episode's score composer.

Tim:

I consider the first vote top be so close as to be inconclusive and this one is headed down the same track. And yes i consider the theme music to be typically the signature for the show or film fanchise as I have noted. Is it the Panther without Mancini, or Rawhide without Tiomkin & Washington's Song...hardly. @ Hal you must be a Democrat.

Skip

Quoting T!M:

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The 'Sledge Hammer!' thing turns out to be a very fine example indeed. Danny Elfman's, who wrote the very recognizable "theme" for 'Sledge Hammer!', is only ever credited for writing the theme, but he NEVER provided an actual score for an episode, not even for the pilot. Others are credited for the score, so according to the current results of this vote, most of you seem happy to deny Danny Elfman ANY credit on 'Sledge Hammer!', while his theme was heavily used by each composer-of-the-week. I don't belong in that category, and have Danny Elfman credited as "song writer" for each episode of 'Sledge Hammer!' - reflecting the actual credits on-screen, I might add. Do the voters still agree that it's better not to credit Danny Elfman at all, just because his "theme" doesn't have lyrics?

I often have the feeling that people are easily dismissing the obvious solution, just because they shrug their shoulders and think: I don't care. But if we are going to strip all such credits from our profiles, I'm pretty sure there's going to be a lot of protest. Again: Danny Elfman's theme is a very large part of the music of 'Sledge Hammer!', but based on the current vote, most of you are happy to deny him any credit. I really don't get that... Once again, I suggest:

Any original piece of music written for a movie or TV show, but NOT written by the actual composer of the score, should be treated with a "song writer" credit.

You was doin' good, and I was with ya 100% until that last sentence.  No matter how much some may dislike it, a song has lyrics - words - while a theme may or may not have words.  You can't arbitrarily give a songwriter credit for the theme unless it is called the "theme song" in the credits.  Most themes, however, do not have lyrics, being purely instrumental.  That's why we need the third check button for Theme.

Quoting skipnet50:

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And yes i consider the theme music to be typically the signature for the show or film fanchise as I have noted. Is it the Panther without Mancini, or Rawhide without Tiomkin & Washington's Song...hardly.

If you do, then why do you insist it's better not to credit these "theme" writers at all, rather then to find a solution which allows us to retain those credits - and I'm talking about the CURRENT situation, not about future changes/enhancements that may or may not be forthcoming. If you agree that the theme often is "typically the signature for the show or film fanchise", then I'd expect you to try to find a way in which we can credit those people for their contributions.

I have suggested a perfectly workable solution, which is not prohibited in any way by the rules (in fact: my understanding of the rules is to handle these credits in the exact way I'm proposing, but apparently this isn't as clear for everybody), yet you remain opposed to this, and prefer not to credit these people. We both agree that the contribution of these "theme" writers is significant. As a result, I tried to find a way to credit them, while you've gone out of your way to make sure their credits will have to be removed from DVD Profiler. Why? What are you gaining by this?

Again: my solution is not prohibited in any way by the rules, it's only prohibited by your outside (and very narrow) definition of what constitutes a "song". I don't even want to argue about that definition, I just tried to show that regardless of your or I consider a "song", it would be very helpful of we could, for DVD Profiler purposes, treat treat any original piece of music written for a movie or TV show, but NOT written by the actual composer of the score, with a "song writer" credit. If we could agree on that, we wouldn't need any rule change, nor a crew section expansion, nor need we be discussing this over and over again.

Quoting cvermeylen:

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A theme is part of the score. It may or may not be composed by the guy who is responsible for the complete score. So the composer of a theme gets credited as composer. To me it doesn't matter if he's written 1 theme or 100 themes for this show. I can't vote because I don't agree with either of the 2 options.

It's nice that you don't agree, but the rules simply don't allow otherwise. In this particular example, only John Cacavas is credited with "music by" (= score). The rules say that we're to use the "composer" credit "for the composer of the film's Original Score." So that's John Cacavas. The rules furthermore specify (in the "Incorrect Roles" column) that we cannot award the "composer" credit to "Songs by Song/Music writers". Mike Post's credit falls in that last category: "Songs by Music writers". As such, the rules very clearly spell out that we can not, under any circumstance, award a "composer" credit to Mike Post. So once again: either we come to an agreement on using the "song writer" field, or we're going to lose these credits.