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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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HD DVD and Blu-ray |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Should I be embarassed to admit that I have never heard of this site?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 844 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Should I be embarassed to admit that I have never heard of this site? Yes!  |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Should I be embarassed to admit that I have never heard of this site? Maybe. But it is a great site to get info on special effects films, comic books, DVDs, cool TV shows, etc. Not every piece of news is first (and many "loyal" readers chide the writers), but rarely does the site miss major coolness. One great feature is the talkback, attached to every article... very easy to get everyone's opinion, not just the author's. For example, the first post reads Quote:
Sorry Harry but Blu-Ray will win
by barrettw
May 30th, 2007 08:00:48 PM
I agree that HD-DVD has much better titles right now, I was very tempted with Children of Men and The Big Lebowski. But Blu Ray discs are already outselling them by a 3:1 margin. and another reads Quote:
my two shiny pennies...and a crisp dollar bill
by tmifune78
May 30th, 2007 09:46:54 PM
I can't imagine anyone crunching the HD numbers and not coming up with a reasonable conclusion. And this isn't heading where people will think. Yes, Blu-Ray had outsold HD-DVD on a 3 to 1 margin throughout the first of the year but it doesn't take Dr. Manhattan to figure out that the sales were inflated by the sudden installed base of PS3s (still disappointing by VG next-gen hardware standards) which has since leveled off. Warner Brothers recently claimed 100,000 thousand HD discs sold for 'The Departed' with a 60/40 ratio in favor of Blu-Ray...yet this was BEFORE the fairly sizable Toshiba promotion that has jetted the HD-DVD A2 player to the top of several hardware sells lists. This promotion by Toshiba is extremely savvy as this is a nation dictated by price...a nation ruled by Wal-Mart if you will. By the end of June, don't be surprised to see HD-DVD software sales take over Blu-Ray...in fact I'll go one further by guaranteeing that HD-DVD software WILL outsell Blu-Ray going into July. Concerning studio support and the respective formats library, this also needs a bit of scrutiny to peek through the smoke and mirrors. Yes, Blu-Ray has more studio backing with exclusive support from Disney, Fox and Lions Gate which earlier in the year might have meant something - but Fox has pulled most of their upcoming catalog titles off the schedule with key releases few and far between and Disney has yet to announce any animation titles (which would be a HUGE selling point) and certainly Pixar has yet to commit. HD-DVD exclusive studio Universal, however, has a strong slate of catalog titles announced through the Fall. The Weinsteins are also HD-DVD exclusive meaning whatever happens to Grindhouse will fall exclusively on this format as well. Also, remember that rumor about Wal-Mart ordering two million players from a Chinese manufacturer? From Bentonville, Arkansas's mouth to Gods ears, expect to see those players by November for under $200. Only a very naive fanboy would predict Blu-Ray the clear winner at this stage in the game. So, at AICN, you get all sides, including the fanboys and the obscene idiots and the dolts who scream "FIRST!" if they think they are to be the first to post under an article (they often aren't), but the info is fun, occasionally wrong (gay rape of Meadow's boyfriend on an early season 6 show of the Sopranos?), but always fun. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff | | | | Last edited: by VibroCount |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 103 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's nice to read posts that are not just regurgitated facts. Anyone can search google and find articles to support their hypothesis, but it does nothing for this forum. Try reading articles and using your own words to interpret them into a tangible opinion. I can also misquote any post here to help support my statements as well. Facts, facts, facts. What is he Friday? Just the facts. I have truly not seen anyone more of a "fanboy" than A_S. But he will argue and say he is just telling the facts. Watch he will pick certain sentences and quote them with a response to support his statement and attemtp to "call you out". It's like talking to a Mac person about a pc, they just don't get it, nor will they even attemp to.
I have to be honest and say I have never heard of AICN. I have spent some time now reading through the site and there is a lot good unbiased info there. I think Sony may be in Big trouble. They have everthing riding on Blu-ray and the PS3 which is a huge vehicle for the former. Sony has had a lot of mishaps over the past few decades. A_S, don't even ask for references to this claim because aint i doin it.
AICN has made a strong argument for HD-DVD. One of the best. This format war has no leader and no clear cut winner. I will use a horse race has an analogy. Anyone ever seen or been to a horse race knows that it doesn't matter who starts of leading, or who takes over the lead midrace it all comes down to the very end. Right after turn 4 does the race begin to show a leader. So A_S quote all the stats you want that show up to the week sales figures, it really doesn't mean sh$t. The race is so far from being over that know one can say who will win. Only one can speculate as to who will. | | | | Last edited: by graymadder |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting graymadder: Quote:
It's nice to read posts that are not just regurgitated facts.
....
This format war has no leader and no clear cut winner. I will use a horse race has an analogy. Anyone ever seen or been to a horse race knows that it doesn't matter who starts of leading, or who takes over the lead midrace it all comes down to the very end. Right after turn 4 does the race begin to show a leader. So A_S quote all the stats you want that show up to the week sales figures, it really doesn't mean sh$t. The race is so far from being over that know one can say who will win. Only one can speculate as to who will. Point 1: that's why I thought Harry's announcement was interesting. Final point: That's why I keep posting the PacMan pie graph... When you compare the red HD DVD to the blue Blu-ray stats, yes the blue is slightly larger; but the yellow standard DVD is monsterous in comparison to both. Standard DVD sales remain more than 200 times greater than either HD DVD or Blu-ray alone. HD discs are barely out of the starting gate, have yet to enter the first straight, let alone take a single turn or fight each other down the back stretch... the final turn is years away, and only then will either enter the straight before the finish line. A_S still claims it's impossible to stream 1080i (or p), yet he fails to address that fewer than 50 years ago the greatest computer experts felt 64K of memory would be the largest any computer would ever need... 30 years ago that no one outside the military and their university lackeys would find any use for what would become the internet... or that 7 years ago planes would fly into buildings giving us 2 to 4 hour waits to board an airplane. Life (especially technology) always changes faster than we anticipate. Discs may be totally obsolete with one technological breakthrough by a lone inventor as fast as YouTube made its inventor (how many?) billions of dollars when he sold it. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 254 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
I actually liked Pirates 3 and Spiderman 3. Haven't seen Fantastic Four 2 yet. It doesn't come out until June 15 so it does beg the question...where did you see it?  Spiderman 3 was the only one of those I saw in the cinema, because I enjoyed the first 2 as entertaining popcorn movies. There is no way in hell I would go to the cinema for Pirates 3 or Fantastic Four 2. | | | | Last edited: by stefc |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | I could prove part of what this blogger guy is saying wrong with facts, but why use facts when making things up is so much more fun, right? Instead, I have a few questions and statements. What will you guys say if this blogger is wrong about the next couple of months? I would really like to know. Hell, I expect HD DVD could win a couple of weeks during the summer due to the BD exclusive studios getting BD+ ready. But, will you still cling to your same ideals when it comes to HD DVD because it's easier if HD DVD can't win a couple of months this summer? You know I will be keeping score. Math is logic and logic is what I do.  BTW, I have given multiple predictions on DVDProfiler concerning Blu-ray and HD DVD (much like this blogger has done). My predictions have been at least 90% accurate (using facts and market trends), but I'm not giving to this thread...ha! I guess since they turned out to be facts, it can't be counted, right? Only positive HD DVD speculation (not facts) is welcome here, right? | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
I could prove part of what this blogger guy is saying wrong with facts, but why use facts when making things up is so much more fun, right?
Instead, I have a few questions and statements.
What will you guys say if this blogger is wrong about the next couple of months? I would really like to know. Hell, I expect HD DVD could win a couple of weeks during the summer due to the BD exclusive studios getting BD+ ready. But, will you still cling to your same ideals when it comes to HD DVD because it's easier if HD DVD can't win a couple of months this summer?
You know I will be keeping score. Math is logic and logic is what I do.
BTW, I have given multiple predictions on DVDProfiler concerning Blu-ray and HD DVD (much like this blogger has done). My predictions have been at least 90% accurate (using facts and market trends), but I'm not giving to this thread...ha! I guess since they turned out to be facts, it can't be counted, right? Only positive HD DVD speculation (not facts) is welcome here, right? Blah, blah, blah, blah... | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
I could prove part of what this blogger guy is saying wrong with facts, but why use facts when making things up is so much more fun, right?
...
I guess since they turned out to be facts, it can't be counted, right? Only positive HD DVD speculation (not facts) is welcome here, right? Where in this discussion (regarding AICN) have I blasted Blu-ray or said HD DVD was better? I speculate (I can only offer my opinion) that Harry has far more influence over the buying public than you do. You rant and rave and manipulate a few well-chosen facts, ignore many others and refuse to acknowledge that this war might be won on something other than what you consider is important. It might be that Blu-ray wins because people will like the disc covers better, or HD DVD discs are all toxic, or some other random bit of silliness. But no; according to you, only your facts count. You know it all and anyone who cannot 100% agree with you is totally opposed to you. It doesn't matter which disc is better. Beta was better: it lost. People will buy whatever they buy. The weirdest whim can send sales skyrocketing or plummeting. I said, and I believe, that when Harry announces something, when he gives his opinion, that it matters not what logic or illogic he uses, his opinion has an amazing impact with his audience, which is huge. And because of that, if he chooses HD DVD over Blu-ray, he is going to influence a lot of buyers. (And perhaps to buy Blu-ray to prove him wrong...) He claims every movie insider he's talked to owns HD DVD, not Blu-ray and that they have their reasons why. If that is true (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), then why do they choose HD DVD? You have no answer because you know no movie insiders. You read biased news reports and repeat them as "FACTS". You pick and choose all your quotes, using only the ones which support your fanboy opinion. You then act as a troll to stir up the debate, demanding our fealty. 8ball is correct: Blah, blah, blah... nothing but a drone here. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Here's an interesting "fact", again from AICN: Quote:
Facts instead of nonsense
by lotusblade
May 30th, 2007 09:54:28 PM
HD-DVD is coming out with 51GB disc (one more GB than BD, take that bitches!) It will be available right at the sametime Disney goes neutral. The disc is all that is holding Disney back.
HD-DVD software sales showed strong signs with the Matrix Trilogy sales.
PS3 sales are slowing, and software sales still are no where near as strong as HD-DVD. In the most important category to most companies: Attachment ratio. HD-DVD kills BD in this category. In addition the Toshiba units by themselves outsell every manufacturer of BD combined by nearly 3 to 1.
WalMart is still in negotiations about their upcoming HD-DVD player (August). The initial offer was something like 6 million players which were to be sold at $199. WalMart says they want the number at $149. So if that deal does go through....Target will soon be making their own deal.
The result? $149 HD-DVD players for the masses. At around the same time Sony will have their $499 BD player out. If HD-DVD does get in Walmart and Target at that price point... the war is over. Interesting. But, of course, someone makes all these facts as wrong a few posts below it... an actual discussion there. | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff | | | | Last edited: by VibroCount |
|   | Erik | | It's a strange world. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 422 |
| | Posted: | | | | A lot of good, sober points and observations there, Cliff. This post made me laugh a bit: Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
I could prove part of what this blogger guy is saying wrong with facts, but why use facts when making things up is so much more fun, right? Harry Knowles is some "blogger guy," yes indeed. Welcome to the internet! | | | Erik
"Has it ever occurred to you, man, that given the nature of all this new stuff, that, uh, instead of running around blaming me, that this whole thing might just be, not, you know, not just such a simple, but uh - you know?" -- The Dude, The Big Lebowski
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,321 |
| | Posted: | | | | I love HD DVD and since I've recently choosen sides, I'd love to see them win this. But I can't let the 51GB disc thing slide.
I mentioned earlier that I attended an HD DVD event earlier this week hosted by Microsoft (unofficially). This topic was brought up and Amir answered it. For the record, Amir is Amir Majidimehr and his official title is Vice President, Microsoft Corporation, Consumer Media Technology Group, Mobile and Embedded Devices Division.
Anyway, he said this is a proposal to the HD DVD committee and that the way these things work is that it will likely take a couple years for the committee to reach any sort of agreement on this proposal. It's just the way things work. They're slow as molasses and very political. So don't get too excited about 51GB discs. And before A_S beats me to the punch, Blu-ray also has higher capacity discs in the works. I believe they have a 200GB that's been successfully lab tested.
Of course they followed this up by asking why we need anything more than 30GB anyway. Sure, you can get more bonus content on the disc and so on. But there's no real technical reason for it. King Kong is still one of the best looking discs to date on HD DVD and it clocks in at 3:08. I asked about something like Return of the King: Extended Edition (4:23) and one of the other Microsoft guys says they've already crunched the numbers and believe that there shouldn't any problems getting that to fit on 30GB with a quality VC-1 encode (although they admitted that it would be cutting it very close). So they're of the opinion that we don't really need more than 30GB. It's a good thing to have on a spec sheet of course, but more for marketing reasons than anything else.
The other point was that Hollywood loves 2 disc sets. Even when they're not really called for. You only have to look at the DVD market to see this in action every day. It costs them mere cents to manufacture another disc ($0.11 was the manufacturing costs mentioned for DVD), yet they can change a lot more for the perceived increase in value on a multi-disc set. So it's really not necessarily a goal to get a large movie and all the bonus material on one disc like a 51GB would allow. | | | Get the CSVExport and Database Query plug-ins here.
Create fake parent profiles to organize your collection. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 681 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Mark Harrison: Quote:
Of course they followed this up by asking why we need anything more than 30GB anyway. Sure, you can get more bonus content on the disc and so on. But there's no real technical reason for it. King Kong is still one of the best looking discs to date on HD DVD and it clocks in at 3:08. I asked about something like Return of the King: Extended Edition (4:23) and one of the other Microsoft guys says they've already crunched the numbers and believe that there shouldn't any problems getting that to fit on 30GB with a quality VC-1 encode (although they admitted that it would be cutting it very close). So they're of the opinion that we don't really need more than 30GB. It's a good thing to have on a spec sheet of course, but more for marketing reasons than anything else. This was very interesting reading... I belong to the large masses who haven't decided their side yet, and this question with disc capacity has been the reason why I have favoured and rooted for Blu-ray up until now. If King Kong, being over 3 hours long, is one of the best ones in either HD formats as far as picture quality go, I am more than happy to take another stand in all this... what with the current region free discs and inexpensive players of HD-DVD and all. The only thing I care about is picture quality. If there are nice extras, fine, even better. I am not picky about sound formats. For me 5.1 and DTS in current SD DVDs are more than enough already. And since 99% of the movies are less than 3 hours (shorter than King Kong) why would the HD-DVD format itself limit the picture quality compared to Blu-ray? I am not deciding sides basing on movies over 4 hours in duration (be it The Lord of the Rings or others). If I buy, say, a 40ish inch 1080p TV, and I can't tell the difference between a Blu-ray version and HD-DVD version (both using the disc capacity to full), it doesn't make any difference what the disc capacity is. I am still not making the final step down from the fence, but that example of King Kong's quality calmed me nicely. For me, now, it doesn't matter which side wins (or perhaps I favour HD-DVD now slightly, for their region free movies and cheaper players), just as long either of them does soon...  And before Ascended_Saiyan reminds me: I know that Blu-ray has the majority of studio support at the moment, but it is irrelevant as long as the format war will be decided while Universal and other HD-DVD release studios still has interesting titles to publish - and they won't be running out of them anytime soon. | | | Mika
I hate people who love me, and they hate me. (Bender Bending Rodriguez) |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting VibroCount: Quote:
Where in this discussion (regarding AICN) have I blasted Blu-ray or said HD DVD was better? You haven't done that. And, to say HD DVD is better would be incorrect. To say HD DVD is cheaper would be accurate. You guys are too busy coming after me for basing a decision on facts (kind of weird). Math, when done correctly, is fact based reasoning. Science is based on fact base reasoning. Both have served human advancement well. Now, when people should be using these when trying to make a decision for ALL future movie watchers, some people are choosing not to use this logic. That is almost the very definition of irrational (definition: not consistent with or using reason). Quote:
I speculate (I can only offer my opinion) that Harry has far more influence over the buying public than you do. That's probably a fact. There are plenty of people that just follow what someone else says without doing any research. THEY are called drones. Those are the ones that generally end up with buyers remorse. Quote:
You rant and rave and manipulate a few well-chosen facts, ignore many others and refuse to acknowledge that this war might be won on something other than what you consider is important. Please show me the "many" other facts that I'm refusing to acknowledge (links please). I haven't really seen anything that is "fact based" about HD DVD accept for the lower price. Just about everything else seems to be just what someone else has said (no individual research done at all). No one has shown me the these "many" facts that I'm overlooking. You guys only say that I'm overlooking facts. I will continue to wait for these "facts" to be presented. Quote:
It might be that Blu-ray wins because people will like the disc covers better, or HD DVD discs are all toxic, or some other random bit of silliness. Yep. Like people choosing Blu-ray because some HD DVD owners might have to boil some HD DVD discs to get them to work in their players. I'm just having a little bit of fun at reality for a minute, but I hear (read) you. Quote:
But no; according to you, only your facts count. You know it all and anyone who cannot 100% agree with you is totally opposed to you. Incorrect. Facts do not belong to me...nor do I claim they are. I DO NOT ignore facts no matter if they hurt me emotional or not. I ALWAYS make note of them. Why do you say I act like I know it ALL? Why can't I just know what I know? I don't much about sailing, the internal workings of planes, make/models of older planes, furniture making, film tech., etc. But, THIS, I know...not everything single bit about it...just the parts that helps one make a complete decision about both formats. That's how I try to approach my purchases. That's how everyone should approach their purchases...as an informed consumer. He said, she said to uninformed consumers (and a much lower price) is how products like HD DVD sells units. Quote:
It doesn't matter which disc is better. Beta was better: it lost. Again, this is not completely correct. Beta had better PQ. VHS had larger capacity. In the present war, Blu-ray has better PQ, AQ, and larger capacity. Quote:
People will buy whatever they buy. The weirdest whim can send sales skyrocketing or plummeting. Then why do companies spend millions on market research, if buying habits are so unpredictable (that's what I gathered from your statement)? Quote:
I said, and I believe, that when Harry announces something, when he gives his opinion, that it matters not what logic or illogic he uses, his opinion has an amazing impact with his audience, which is huge. And because of that, if he chooses HD DVD over Blu-ray, he is going to influence a lot of buyers. (And perhaps to buy Blu-ray to prove him wrong...) It is definitely a strong possibility. Quote:
He claims every movie insider he's talked to owns HD DVD, not Blu-ray and that they have their reasons why. If that is true (and I have no reason to believe otherwise), then why do they choose HD DVD? If true, maybe they are Sony haters like many HD DVD owners here or maybe some of that MS and Toshiba money has reached them. It's definitively not because it is a better technology. Quote:
You have no answer because you know no movie insiders. Actually, I do know a couple of insiders. They have both so they can do many comparisons at any time. That is the only way you can know which is truly better. That's why it's hard to believe movie/film insiders would ONLY have a HD DVD player. That tells me something right there. Quote:
You read biased news reports and repeat them as "FACTS". You pick and choose all your quotes, using only the ones which support your fanboy opinion. You then act as a troll to stir up the debate, demanding our fealty. I don't have a HD DVD player, but I've done most of my comparisons at HiFi Buys. Would you really think that someone so caught up on the facts would just repeat articles without proving at least some of these through some scientific methodology? That wouldn't be logical now would it? That would be the type of drone behavior I've been seeing here. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 172 |
| | Posted: | | | | Well I have an HD DVD player and a PS3. The HD DVD PQ is still better than the BR PQ on the PS3. So your (AS) statement about BR having the better PQ is not accurate. I have the latest firmware updates on both machines. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 254 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
I DO NOT ignore facts no matter if they hurt me emotional or not. I ALWAYS make note of them. FACT: Most of the first blu-ray releases are very shoddy MPEG2 encodes. FACT: The lossless sound formats such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA sound exactly the same as Uncompressed PCM, but waste less space on the disc. FACT: The blu-ray spec has multiple levels (1.0, 1.1, 2.0). The base level 1.0, lacks many features such as audio codec support, a secondary video decoder (for pip commentaries and extras), storage (to keep bookmarks), 1.1 and 2.0 players are still not out, and if future discs include these features, early adopters with 1.0 players are screwed) FACT: The blu-ray spec includes Region coding, the HD DVD spec doesn't. FACT: Fox and Disney have amazing back catalogues, yet so far aren't interested in releasing much of it on Blu-ray. FACT: Blu-Ray may well have been dead by now if it weren't for the PS3. You love spouting out figures, go find some figures for sales of BD stand alone players excluding the ps3... FACT: Blu-ray interactivity still doesn't work properly. |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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