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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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HD DVD and Blu-ray |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quote:
So please, please, tell me where you are getting this "usually" from. 
What about Fiber To The Home (FTTH)?
What about HD broadcasts?
What about friend locator on cell phone (like the Helios)?
What about fuel efficient vehicles?
What about new forms of earthquake stabilization?
...and so many others.
Other than fuel efficient vehicles, was there a 'format war'? I mean was there another company pushing something other that FTTH or different Earthquake Stabalization? Even your 'fuel efficient vehicles' isn't completely correct. One word...HUMMER.  So, does that mean I can say the same about you referring to DVD-RAM? It was never a movie format...just in case you didn't know that. What does the Hummer have to do with the Japan? | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 811 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Do you have anything constructive to add? 
Yeah...blah, blah, blah, blah...
 Do You??!AcS preached: "Toshiba is now offering 5 free movies with your purchase into a quickly dying format. What's the use?" Like I said before, you are the single biggest A*S on this forum, and you offer nothing but your own ego-inflated, negative hyperbole garbage speak. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,414 |
| | Posted: | | | | If you think that offering 5 free movies with purchase of player on Amazon is a sign of disaster, what is Amazon's offer of 50% off each and every Blu-ray movie? | | | | "This movie has warped my fragile little mind." | | | | Last edited: by gardibolt |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
Quote:
So please, please, tell me where you are getting this "usually" from.
What about Fiber To The Home (FTTH)?
What about HD broadcasts?
What about friend locator on cell phone (like the Helios)?
What about fuel efficient vehicles?
What about new forms of earthquake stabilization?
...and so many others.
Other than fuel efficient vehicles, was there a 'format war'? I mean was there another company pushing something other that FTTH or different Earthquake Stabalization? Even your 'fuel efficient vehicles' isn't completely correct. One word...HUMMER.
So, does that mean I can say the same about you referring to DVD-RAM? It was never a movie format...just in case you didn't know that. Did I say MOVIE FORMAT? No I didn't, please learn to read and comprehend. What I said was, " was there a 'format war'?". I even went on to explain what I meant by saying, "I mean was there another company pushing something other..." Quote:
What does the Hummer have to do with the Japan? You really are thick. The Hummer, and most SUVs that Americans love are not fuel efficient vehicles. The point was that America does not follow what Japan does. Every single one of your examples is flawed. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting gardibolt: Quote:
If you think that offering 5 free movies with purchase of player on Amazon is a sign of disaster, what is Amazon's offer of 50% off each and every Blu-ray movie? First of all, the 50% off MSRP (about $5 in reality...like the Amazon glitch earlier for ALL HD DVD titles) is only on 40+ titles out of over 180 titles. Secondly, Casino Royale and the Departed currently ranked #9 and #74 (on Amazon) respectively, are not on sale! Neither are Rocky Balboa and The Prestige currently ranked #153 and #173 respectively, on sale. Lastly, How can Blu-ray be desperate to stay alive when they have had an ever expanding lead over HD DVD before the sale? Does that make ANY sense? Just wondering how it is possible to come to that conclusion in light of the facts. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Did I say MOVIE FORMAT?
No I didn't, please learn to read and comprehend. What I said was, " was there a 'format war'?". I even went on to explain what I meant by saying, "I mean was there another company pushing something other..." No, you didn't say movie format. That's the problem with the total direction you are trying to steer towards. If it's not a movie format example during this period of current world economics, it's flawed. Do you remember quoting the following section from an article (which lead us down this path)? Quote:
But we also have to look at the big picture. The Japanese / European / United States consumer markets are entirely seperate entities that have behaved completely different in times past. Just because one product or format is popular in Japan, it does not necessarily mean that the rest of the world will follow suit. For example, the DVD-RAM format is very popular Japan. Ask an average North American consumer if they have ever used DVD-RAM and they would probably not even know what it is. That's a flawed comparison. DVD-RAM has nothing to do with studio support. Another thing is that it's not just in Japan that Blu-ray is dominating. It's North America (home of the big movie studios), Australia and soon to be Europe after the Casino Royale is released in Europe on the March 19. The pre-orders have already made sure of it. Remember only about 3500+ HD DVD players are in Europe. Quote:
You really are thick. The Hummer, and most SUVs that Americans love are not fuel efficient vehicles. The point was that America does not follow what Japan does. Every single one of your examples is flawed. That's just something IN ADDITION to what was adopted (which were much more fuel efficient vehicles). Your example is severely and tragically flawed. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles | | | | Last edited: by Ascended_Saiyan |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | I will contribute the Nielsen VideoScan numbers for the week ending March 11... Since Inception (SI) #: Blu-ray:HD-DVD 100:89.25 YTD: Blu-ray:HD-DVD 100:47.37 I believe Feb. 23 it was reported that the Nielsen VideoScan numbers looked something like the following: Since Inception (SI) #: Blu-ray:HD-DVD 100:98.71 INteresting... I think these numbers do not include Wal-Mart and Amazon. I wonder what the numbers will look like when Casino Royale's numbers are added. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
I will contribute the Nielsen VideoScan numbers for the week ending March 11...
Since Inception (SI) #: Blu-ray:HD-DVD
100:89.25
YTD: Blu-ray:HD-DVD
100:47.37
I believe Feb. 23 it was reported that the Nielsen VideoScan numbers looked something like the following:
Since Inception (SI) #: Blu-ray:HD-DVD
100:98.71
INteresting...
I think these numbers do not include Wal-Mart and Amazon. I wonder what the numbers will look like when Casino Royale's numbers are added. blah, blah, blah, blah... | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,414 |
| | Posted: | | | | I talked to the Nielsen Videoscan people a couple months ago about these numbers. They do reflect Amazon, and they said the one major retailer they do not include is Wal-Mart, which doesn't share its numbers with anyone. The 800 pound gorilla.... | | | | "This movie has warped my fragile little mind." |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
No, you didn't say movie format. That's the problem with the total direction you are trying to steer towards. If it's not a movie format example during this period of current world economics, it's flawed.
Do you remember quoting the following section from an article (which lead us down this path)?
Quote:
But we also have to look at the big picture. The Japanese / European / United States consumer markets are entirely seperate entities that have behaved completely different in times past. Just because one product or format is popular in Japan, it does not necessarily mean that the rest of the world will follow suit. For example, the DVD-RAM format is very popular Japan. Ask an average North American consumer if they have ever used DVD-RAM and they would probably not even know what it is.
That's a flawed comparison. DVD-RAM has nothing to do with studio support. Another thing is that it's not just in Japan that Blu-ray is dominating. It's North America (home of the big movie studios), Australia and soon to be Europe after the Casino Royale is released in Europe on the March 19. The pre-orders have already made sure of it. Remember only about 3500+ HD DVD players are in Europe. Funny thing that. I took that quote from an article that you provided. I am sorry that the author of the article didn't come to the same conclusion you did...there goes that pesky open mindedness. The author says it isn't proof of anything yet you claim that the world follows Japan. I wonder who we should believe? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 172 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
Quoting Boykin:
Quote:
When they compare the prices on the 2 formats, I think HD DVD will have the advantage if prices are still what they are now.
The prices won't be the same....look at this article.
The PS3 Blu-ray player is $500. If there was a $500 difference between the two formats, HD DVD would be free. The standalone Sony BDP-S300 Blu-ray player is looking to be around $300 by Black Friday (November).
Quote:
HD DVD uses the better codec, and by then studios will have the option to use a 51 GB HD DVD disc, or a disc that is HD DVD on one side and Blu-ray on the other.
HD DVD does not use the better codec. Where did you get that from? BTW, Blu-ray uses ALL 3 video codecs.
Why worry about a 51GB disc that is yet to be ratified? HD DVD still hasn't put out a 45GB disc and it was ratified a long time ago. I will tell you why they probably won't produce those TL discs, if you haven't figured it out yet. They would cost more to make than BD 50GB disc (BTW, Blu-ray's max disc size is 200GB). Plus, you would most likely have to buy a new player just to play a 51GB HD DVD disc (not in the specs of current HD DVD players).
Quote:
Why spend more for a player when you can get one for half the price that will play the side of the disc that has better picture quality and more special features.
It seems you, too, are caught in the past. That hasn't been the case for some time now. More special features is a studio's choice when it comes to Blu-ray...not a format choice. Remember, Blu-ray has more space available than HD DVD.
Quote:
Remember, Blue-ray needs the 50 GB just to get their movie on the disc because they don't want to use Microsoft's VC1 codec because Microsoft is backing HD DVD.
Again, Blu-ray support ALL 3 video codecs (MPEG-2, VC-1, and MPEG4-AVC). Cable, Satellite, and Over the Air (OTA) broadcastors have choosen AVC to succeed MPEG-2 (not VC-1). Actually, VC-1 does not seem to capture facial details as well as the other video codecs (no doubt do to all the filtering). Then, there is the problem with arrtifacting on brown and orange scenes. I showed examples of this, in the last forum, to Amir which he did not deny. VC-1 is not the best codec.
Quote:
The average Amreican family will not pay 500.00 more for a player.
Like I said before, to say a Blu-ray player costs $500 more would make an HD DVD player cost $0. And, it seems your theory is incorrect. In December, standalone player sales were about even despite being able to buy a standalone HD DVD player at $500 and not $1000. That was a $500 difference. It seems like people just want to choose the right format no matter the difference in price. A lot of people, generally, realize price is usually not a static thing in consumer electronics.
Early adopter makes the format choice for the rest of the people. Blu-ray's lead is only getting wider. No one wants to buy into the wrong format. The average American family will look at the most major studio supported and most successful format and make a decision. The way things are looking for the future that will be Blu-ray. Not everyone wants to buy a game console to play DVDs. I don't. If HD DVD wins the war, all of the studios will support HD DVD. The studios go where the money is. Lease expensive Blu-ray player on Bestbuy.com is 799.99. HD DVD 499.99. 300.00 difference. I guess since HD DVD studios are providing more special features than BD studios, the best studios support HD DVD. If they are supporting BD, why are they not putting special features on the BD disc to give their customers more for their money???? Almost every Hi Def DVD review that had good picture quality used VC1. VC1 does not need 50 GB for a 2 hour movie. Remember King Kong (3 Hours) fit on a 30 GB disc. Other disc are compared to King King's quality. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 844 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Ascended_Saiyan: Quote:
They are very popular in the rest of the world. I don't live in the United States you numbskull, I guess that puts me in the rest of the world. And I don't know a single soul who has ever used VCD for anything. ...you are such a blindered annoyance...can't you find another forum to harass with your nonsense? | | | | Last edited: by bob9000 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting gardibolt: Quote:
I talked to the Nielsen Videoscan people a couple months ago about these numbers. They do reflect Amazon, and they said the one major retailer they do not include is Wal-Mart, which doesn't share its numbers with anyone. The 800 pound gorilla.... So, the Nielsen VideoScan numbers cover about 60 - 70% of the total market. That should mean that unless just about every HD DVD player owner buys their movies from Wal-Mart, the ratios should be very accurate, right? | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting Ascended_Saiyan:
Quote:
No, you didn't say movie format. That's the problem with the total direction you are trying to steer towards. If it's not a movie format example during this period of current world economics, it's flawed.
Do you remember quoting the following section from an article (which lead us down this path)?
Quote:
But we also have to look at the big picture. The Japanese / European / United States consumer markets are entirely seperate entities that have behaved completely different in times past. Just because one product or format is popular in Japan, it does not necessarily mean that the rest of the world will follow suit. For example, the DVD-RAM format is very popular Japan. Ask an average North American consumer if they have ever used DVD-RAM and they would probably not even know what it is.
That's a flawed comparison. DVD-RAM has nothing to do with studio support. Another thing is that it's not just in Japan that Blu-ray is dominating. It's North America (home of the big movie studios), Australia and soon to be Europe after the Casino Royale is released in Europe on the March 19. The pre-orders have already made sure of it. Remember only about 3500+ HD DVD players are in Europe.
Funny thing that. I took that quote from an article that you provided. I am sorry that the author of the article didn't come to the same conclusion you did...there goes that pesky open mindedness. The author says it isn't proof of anything yet you claim that the world follows Japan. I wonder who we should believe? Since you chose to ignore my last paragraph when you made the above statement, we will just move on. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,127 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Boykin: Quote:
Not everyone wants to buy a game console to play DVDs. I don't. Just because you don't want to count the PS3's Blu-ray playing ability does not mean it is not counted. $500 is the price to play Blu-ray movies...period. Quote:
If HD DVD wins the war, all of the studios will support HD DVD. The studios go where the money is. How big is that "IF"? The studios DO go where the money is. BTW, where is the money? Quote:
Lease expensive Blu-ray player on Bestbuy.com is 799.99. HD DVD 499.99. 300.00 difference. Amazon has the Samsung Blu-ray player for $499.77 SHIPPED. Like I said before...living in the past. Quote:
I guess since HD DVD studios are providing more special features than BD studios, the best studios support HD DVD. Don't you mean HD DVD studio...not studios? It seems most major studios are looking to set themselves up for the double dip as always. Since most of those studios are with Blu-ray, you are only feeling the lack of tons of extras with Paramount. Quote:
If they are supporting BD, why are they not putting special features on the BD disc to give their customers more for their money???? Of course, another benefit is better sound with LPCM on Blu-ray. There are two types of TrueHD. One is a higher quality than the other (the truly loseless version). Blu-ray supports the higher quality version of TrueHD. The TrueHD version on almost all HD DVD discs is the lower quality TrueHD. That's why you can tell the difference between that and uncompressed PCM. That is why TrueHD did not show up on Blu-ray titles from Warner Bros. Quote:
Almost every Hi Def DVD review that had good picture quality used VC1. Go back and look through those reviews again. You have obviously missed a lot of reviews. I will point you in the right direction by listing a few titles to look for...Covenant, Tears of the Sun, Eight Below, Crank, Windtalkers, The Pursuit of Happiness, Reign of Fire, The Descent, etc. I thought it was now widely known that the appearance of a movie mostly depends on the quality of the master (the source)...not the codec. Quote:
VC1 does not need 50 GB for a 2 hour movie. Curious...it seems like the HD DVD camp doesn't believe that or else why propose a 45GB and now 51GB disc? It seems you bought into the hype of ever decreasing bitrates. Quote:
Remember King Kong (3 Hours) fit on a 30 GB disc. Other disc are compared to King King's quality. Remember, you don't even have TrueHD on that title. The reasons being space and maximum throughput allowed. | | | To err is human...
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473 Blu-ray Titles |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Home Theater Discussion |
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