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What is it with you Americans....?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
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Quoting pauls42:
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Quoting Telecine:
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I'm not much of a fan of remakes and agree that Americans tend to remake everything. One observation that I would make is that Americans seem to like happy endings more than the rest of us. A case in point would be the remake of Spoorloos, remade as The Vanishing. The ending in the remake ruined the whole film as compared to the original.


An example of a film that was ruined by a happy ending is Bladerunner of course..    Apparently the bunch of american teenagers a) couldn't understand it (so we had a voice over) and b) wanted a happy ending.

Thank goodness they eventually threw off both of these monstrosities!!


That's why we have such things as 'Director's Cuts'.  I might add also, that part of the problem is that people don't read either, so they are unfamiliar with much of the source material used in movies.  "Bladerunner" was based on a Ray Bradbury short story, for example.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJonM
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Quoting Rifter:
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so they are unfamiliar with much of the source material used in movies.  "Bladerunner" was based on a Ray Bradbury short story, for example.


I thought Bladeruuner was based on "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" by Phillip K. Dick?

I agree with that sentiment though, also so far as people not realising when they are watching a remake. I suppose that in a way is the excuse for doing remakes in the first place; to the general public, most stories has a limited shelf-life before it has to be reproduced to be relevant. It's only geeks like us that insist on digging up the originals!  I'm being flippant, but actually I'm slightly depressed by that thought ...
Jon
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."

DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorVoltaire53
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Quoting Rifter:
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I might add also, that part of the problem is that people don't read either, so they are unfamiliar with much of the source material used in movies.  "Bladerunner" was based on a Ray Bradbury short story, for example.


I know it was probably just a slip up but Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? was Philip K. Dick not Ray Bradbury.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJonM
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Quoting Voltaire53:
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I know it was probably just a slip up but Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? was Philip K. Dick not Ray Bradbury.




Are you my echo? That's two threads! 
Jon
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Quoting JonM:
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Quoting Rifter:
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so they are unfamiliar with much of the source material used in movies.  "Bladerunner" was based on a Ray Bradbury short story, for example.


I thought Bladeruuner was based on "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" by Phillip K. Dick?

I agree with that sentiment though, also so far as people not realising when they are watching a remake. I suppose that in a way is the excuse for doing remakes in the first place; to the general public, most stories has a limited shelf-life before it has to be reproduced to be relevant. It's only geeks like us that insist on digging up the originals!  I'm being flippant, but actually I'm slightly depressed by that thought ...


Oops!  My bad.  Phillip K. Dick is one of my favorite authors - don't know why I said Bradbury - must've been a brain fart.  Don't get too depressed though, look at how many times they've done "War of the Worlds." (Copying is the sincerest form of praise)  Society is moving away from books and paper based knowledge systems.  My genereation is probably the last that has a real appreciation for books, especially old books by the classic authors.  With computers and e-books and such, and everybody moving at electronic speed, nobody has time to sit and actually turn pages anymore.  Its too bad, because that is still the best way to get to know a set of characters and tell a story.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
 Last edited: by Rifter
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAstrakan
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Quoting Rifter:
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With computers and e-books and such, and everybody moving at electronic speed, nobody has time to sit and actually turn pages anymore.  Its too bad, because that is still the best way to get to know a set of characters and tell a story.

How does an e-book make it harder to know a set of characters or tell a story?

Not trying to be facetious, just curious to know why you feel this way. I, too, prefer a "real" book to an e-book, but more for tactile reasons than anything else. I just like how a real book feels and smells compared to the impersonal experience of an e-book.

KM
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorVoltaire53
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Quoting Astrakan:
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How does an e-book make it harder to know a set of characters or tell a story?


i think it's been 'proven' in tests that human beings take in a lot less information when read on a screen than when read off a page. Of course thhis may change as children grow up with reading from PCs etc but it may actually be a by-product of the medium for reasons that are not yet clear.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Quoting Astrakan:
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Quoting Rifter:
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With computers and e-books and such, and everybody moving at electronic speed, nobody has time to sit and actually turn pages anymore.  Its too bad, because that is still the best way to get to know a set of characters and tell a story.

How does an e-book make it harder to know a set of characters or tell a story?

Not trying to be facetious, just curious to know why you feel this way. I, too, prefer a "real" book to an e-book, but more for tactile reasons than anything else. I just like how a real book feels and smells compared to the impersonal experience of an e-book.

KM


You touched on it.  Its the tactile feel of linen and fine acid-free paper, and sometimes even leather.  The weight, the gold gilded page edges, the smell of shelves of old bound books mingled with leather upholstery.  Then there is the intrinsic value of old rare books and first editions. I was fortunate to have grandparents and parents who loved books and instilled a respect and love for them in me.  My most treasured books are a set of exact reproductions of some of the most important books in American political thought.  Leather bindings, moire endpapers, sewn - not stapled - backbone, exact copy of the original type face, etc.  Cost me a small fortune.  [For example:  "Common Sense" and "The Rights of Man" by Thomas Paine in one volume, "On the Constitution of the United States" by Chief Justice Joseph Story (1840), "The Federalist Papers", etc.]
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
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Quoting Voltaire53:
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Quoting Astrakan:
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How does an e-book make it harder to know a set of characters or tell a story?


i think it's been 'proven' in tests that human beings take in a lot less information when read on a screen than when read off a page. Of course thhis may change as children grow up with reading from PCs etc but it may actually be a by-product of the medium for reasons that are not yet clear.


Actually, they know why in terms of the differences between the two mediums, just not why the brain reacts that way.  It has to do with the texture of the print on the page.  Our eyes can detect the tiny difference in height between the page and the letters printed on it, along with the texture of the paper, and the coloration under light.  Electronic text is 100% flat, and there is no texture to the screen.  Our eyes have to work harder to read electronic text, utilizing contrast and brightness to see the text, rather than the actual three dimensional quality of printed text on paper.
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantJonM
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I agree with all that, Rifter, but your first explanation doesn't really allow for a dog eared paperback with coffee stains!

I use the Internet and computers a lot. It is after all my job. However, I don't trust them or anything I read on them at a basic level. I don't like how something can change in an instant, be hidden or corrupted; or at worst, ignored. You can't do that to a book. It's a tangible object that has had a life of its own to get to you and that gives it authority, even over its authors views and mistakes.

Even if I disagree with the view of a particular author, I still appreciate how arguing with a book is like throwing paper darts at a statue! I don't believe there will ever be a popular form of electronic publishing for these reasons. It's a subconscious barrier.

I always liked a quote from Buffy, season two or three. Giles said he didn't trust computers. He didn't like the smell. "Computers don't smell!", said Buffy. "Exactly" ...

By the way, tomorrow I might think this was a load of rubbish, login and replace it with a picture of a cat doing something silly! 
Jon
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."

DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantAstrakan
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Quoting Rifter:
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You touched on it.  Its the tactile feel of linen and fine acid-free paper, and sometimes even leather.  The weight, the gold gilded page edges, the smell of shelves of old bound books mingled with leather upholstery.  Then there is the intrinsic value of old rare books and first editions. I was fortunate to have grandparents and parents who loved books and instilled a respect and love for them in me.  My most treasured books are a set of exact reproductions of some of the most important books in American political thought.  Leather bindings, moire endpapers, sewn - not stapled - backbone, exact copy of the original type face, etc.  Cost me a small fortune.  [For example:  "Common Sense" and "The Rights of Man" by Thomas Paine in one volume, "On the Constitution of the United States" by Chief Justice Joseph Story (1840), "The Federalist Papers", etc.]

Well, yeah, all that's real nice and the same reasons I prefer real books, but what I was getting at is that all that doesn't really help the storytelling process. Those are all reasons to prefer books over e-books, but they're not really explanations for why books are the best way for readers to get to know characters or writers to tell stories.

I'm sure people who do read e-books (and writers who write them) know the characters of the stories they read/write just as well as those of us who prefer real books.

Anyway, this is basically becoming me busting your balls over semantics. When I made my original post I didn't realize it was just a turn of phrase, but thought perhaps there was another reason why you preferred books other than historical and tactile ones.

Voltaire53 did bring up up an interesting point, but one I think applies mostly to academic texts over fictional stories.

KM
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 Last edited: by Astrakan
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