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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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All right now this is too much |
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| Registered: December 10, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 3,004 |
| | Posted: | | | | There were apparently a lot of pro-Indian Westerns in the 1910s, but few survive. This actually started to change in the 1950s. See, for instance, Broken Arrow with Jimmy Stewart, though it isn't very good.
As for John Wayne, watch something like Red River, where he plays a character who isn't heroic at all. Jerkassery with HUAC aside, the man could act.
I think there have been a lot of decent movies lately. This partially because of improvements in technology lowering costs and expanding what can be done, but mostly because today's screenwriters, directors, et al. can learn from their predecessors. I can guarantee you the film students of 2030 are a lot more likely to watch Memento and The Shawshank Redemption when studying the modern period than One Missed Call and Saw. There were a lot of shiitake mushroomty movies in every decade, we just don't talk about the ones before the late 1970s or so much. When people talk about the films of 1967, they talk about Cool Hand Luke and The Graduate, not the X From Outer Space and Mundo Depravados.
When people complain about censorship, it's not a matter of the producer trumping the director in most cases, it's the studio (i.e. business considerations) trumping everybody. A movie like the Graduate couldn't have been made twenty (or probably even ten) years earlier not for lack of anyone to produce it, but because studios wouldn't allow it and would have shut it out of the theaters. Breaking the vertical monopoly is what gave people freedom. |
| | Registered: August 23, 2008 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,656 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
What social redeeming value do movies like SAW 1-6 offer the viewing public? Or films that depict nothing but foul language and gratuitous sex?
Not to mention, what kind of entertainment value do such things hold? The movies being made tell you a whole lot about the people watching them, and most of it's not very good these days.
--------------- You're kidding, right? You ever read the Bible? It has all sorts of violence in it, with an incest bonus. I guess it says a whole lot about the people who read it. | | | Reviewer, HorrorTalk.com
"I also refuse to document CLT results and I pay my bills to avoid going to court." - Sam, keeping it real, yo. | | | | Last edited: by Alien Redrum |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
What social redeeming value do movies like SAW 1-6 offer the viewing public? Or films that depict nothing but foul language and gratuitous sex?
Not to mention, what kind of entertainment value do such things hold? The movies being made tell you a whole lot about the people watching them, and most of it's not very good these days.
---------------
You're kidding, right?
You ever read the Bible? It has all sorts of violence in it, with an incest bonus.
I guess it says a whole lot about people who read it. Yea, those kinds of statements always make me laugh and shake my head.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 10, 2009 | | Posts: 2,248 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting DarklyNoon:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
What you seem to fail to understand is that film-making is a reflection of the societal norms of the time. Movies made in the 40's and 50's reflect the mores of the 40's and 50's when the world was fighting a world war and/or recovering from the same. In the 20's they were carefree and wild, just like the lives of the people who went to see them.
Like any art form, movies have gone through an evolution over the past 120+ years. Technologies have changed. Belief systems have changed, and unlike you, I don't believe always for the better. What social redeeming value do movies like SAW 1-6 offer the viewing public? Or films that depict nothing but foul language and gratuitous sex?
I don't need to go to the movies to see what real life is all about. I just need to open my eyes and look around at the real thing.
I suppose you don't read literature from prior to the 1970's either. Or worse yet, like so many of your age group, you probably read very little, period. Why should you when you are bombarded with information 24X7? You've got 24 hour news, the internet, twitter, facebook, etc. etc., etc.
Poor substitutes for the great classics of the world, I'm afraid.
It saddens me that you have chosen to ignore some of the greatest movies ever made, just because they pre-date your existence. It is said that those who chose to ignore history are destined to relive it. The same can be said for those who are totally unaware of history by their own choices.
Well,
I do not know why you make assumptions that I ignore films prior to my bday and why you make assumptions that I do not read books. 
I watched a fair share of those so called classics from Billy Wilder, I watched Citizen Cane, Casablanca, some Hitchcock films, Nosferatu, Metropolis, just to name some.
But they simply do not do it for me. You are right the films are a reflection about the times they were made in, but those are not my times.
I grew up with the punk movement in Europe, as a rebellious teenager who gave a f*** about existing morals, I wanted things to change, to be alive, to be politically incorrect, everyone should be able to say what he wants and to do what he wants.
You were also wrong about your other assumptions, I never even visited Twitter or Facebook and do not plan to do so, I do not like those social networks. I am a child of IRC and the Newsgroups , which I both use on a daily basis.
And I also read books, I love Marion Zimmer Bradley, Tokien, Bret Easton Ellis, Salinger and many more.
You are right I have no problem with films like the SAW series, they are amazing entertainment, of course they hold no deeper value, but I do not feel ashamed to watch films for entertainment too 
And I have also no problem with nudity , explicit sex or violence on tv or in movies, this is part of life and why shouldn't it be part of the movies too then ?
In germany it is common to see nudity even in the afternoon hours on regular tv, we have no problems with that here, I know in America you only get to see that on cable.
Same with foul language, no one cares about that here.
I do not want to offend you in any way, but I felt I had to make some things clear, cuz your assumptions about me were pretty wrong
cheers
Donnie
Try reading some history and you will learn what happens when "everybody does whatever they please". And you think today we are not governed by "political correctness". Surely you jest!
Believe it or not, civilizations need boundaries just like kids need boundaries.
Like I said, those who do not learn from history are bound to relive it. Try reading the "Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" for starters! I live in Scotland a country that does not build nukes but yeah we did have some dumped on our land as we are part of the UK. Why don't you just come out and say i hate that black man is president and homosexuality is wrong  |
| | Registered: May 8, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,945 |
| | Posted: | | | | I strongly disagree, we do not need any boundaries, I believe in the free will and spirit of man.
I respond very bad to any kind of authority, regulation, restrictions of any kind. Who is that who wants to tell me what to do and what is ethnical or of moral values ?
You ? The State ? The President ? The guy around the corner ? The non existing god ?
Surely not!
I do not believe in governments, I surely do not believe in any religion.
Freedom is the most valuable thing a human being has.
Freedom in actions and Freedom of Speech and Freedom of thought.
cheers
Donnie | | | | www.tvmaze.com |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | That would be called anarchy. That's worked real well in the past!  Fortunately, there are enough people in this world who understand that any viable civilization requires structure. | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 10, 2009 | | Posts: 2,248 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
That would be called anarchy.
That's worked real well in the past!
Fortunately, there are enough people in this world who understand that any viable civilization requires structure. And a snuggie! |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DarklyNoon: Quote:
I strongly disagree, we do not need any boundaries, I believe in the free will and spirit of man.
I respond very bad to any kind of authority, regulation, restrictions of any kind. Who is that who wants to tell me what to do and what is ethnical or of moral values ?
You ? The State ? The President ? The guy around the corner ? The non existing god ?
Surely not! So rape, murder, thieft, assault, etc., all fine in your book?  I do not believe in governments, I surely do not believe in any religion. Quote:
Freedom is the most valuable thing a human being has. Actually, the capacity for rational thought is the most valuable thing a human being has. Without that, we are no better than the gorilla living, with his freedom, in the forest. Quote:
Freedom in actions and Freedom of Speech and Freedom of thought. It always strikes me as funny that the people who actually live by this code rarely, if ever, allow others the same freedom. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 29, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 4,479 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting TheMadMartian: Quote:
Actually, the capacity for rational thought is the most valuable thing a human being has.  and, of course, this is true in all domains, even in our prefered hobbies... | | | | Images from movies |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,853 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Alien Redrum: Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
What social redeeming value do movies like SAW 1-6 offer the viewing public? Or films that depict nothing but foul language and gratuitous sex?
Not to mention, what kind of entertainment value do such things hold? The movies being made tell you a whole lot about the people watching them, and most of it's not very good these days.
You're kidding, right?
You ever read the Bible? It has all sorts of violence in it, with an incest bonus.
I guess it says a whole lot about the people who read it. I guess you missed the highlighted part about entertainment value? Who do you know that reads the Bible for entertainment? IMO, there is something wrong with people who are "entertained" by watching others suffer, particularly in horrific ways. There certainly can be some value in reading about human attrocities, but I can't imagine being entertained by such things. --------------- |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 5,494 |
| | Posted: | | | | Let's get this post back on track here.. Would The Searchers be about the only film that John Wayne played a character who (in the long run) played a bit of a bad Guy? I can't seem to think of any role that the Duke played where he was the Bad Guy . ??
Same hypothesis with James Stewart.. I came across this 1953 film the other day (the Naked Spur) that Stewart appeared to be mostly a bad character.. | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry | | | | Last edited: by widescreenforever |
| | Registered: March 20, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,853 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting widescreenforever: Quote:
Let's get this post back on track here.. Would The Searchers be about the only film that John Wayne played a character who (in the long run) played a bit of a bad Guy? I can't seem to think of any role that the Duke played where he was the Bad Guy . ?? Possibly in Reap the Wild Wind or The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence (and in the previously mentioned Red River.) In those films Wayne played characters at least as flawed as that of Ethan Edwards. --------------- | | | | Last edited: by scotthm |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,494 |
| | Posted: | | | | don't have or know -Reap the wild Wind.. but in Liberty Valance the Duke was a tough guy who was an honest guy and dealt with the villian ( Lee Marvin) accordingly.. | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
I guess you missed the highlighted part about entertainment value? Who do you know that reads the Bible for entertainment?
IMO, there is something wrong with people who are "entertained" by watching others suffer, particularly in horrific ways. There certainly can be some value in reading about human attrocities, but I can't imagine being entertained by such things.
--------------- There is a huge difference between being entertained by flights of fancy, which movies are, and being entertained by watching others actually suffer. I own the Saw films and knew, going in, that nobody was actually suffering.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 10, 2009 | | Posts: 2,248 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting scotthm: Quote:
Quoting Alien Redrum:
Quote:
Quoting scotthm:
Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
What social redeeming value do movies like SAW 1-6 offer the viewing public? Or films that depict nothing but foul language and gratuitous sex?
Not to mention, what kind of entertainment value do such things hold? The movies being made tell you a whole lot about the people watching them, and most of it's not very good these days.
You're kidding, right?
You ever read the Bible? It has all sorts of violence in it, with an incest bonus.
I guess it says a whole lot about the people who read it.
I guess you missed the highlighted part about entertainment value? Who do you know that reads the Bible for entertainment?
IMO, there is something wrong with people who are "entertained" by watching others suffer, particularly in horrific ways. There certainly can be some value in reading about human attrocities, but I can't imagine being entertained by such things.
--------------- Violence and suffering such as in Hostel are pornographic in nature given the violence is pretty much premise of the film. Where as other forms of violence such as those in seen Once Upon A Time In America are not of romanticised, pornographic nature. It's designed to cause emotions of disgust than pleasure and if films did not play to all the aspects of human nature than frankly they would not be very compelling to watch now would they. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,494 |
| | Posted: | | | | Ever see Divine eat that dogpoop in Pink Flamingos?? and that was 1972 !! ...  | | | In the 60's, People took Acid to make the world Weird. Now the World is weird and People take Prozac to make it Normal.
Terry |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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