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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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So where do we need to get "Title" from ? |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Time for a reality check then, ... I'm also fine with the title without the ellipsis. IMO it's just overkill to use the title field and the original title field, when the only difference are three dots. This clutters up lists and reports. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting RHo: Quote:
IMO leaving the ellipsis (...) out on the cover does not justify to apply the modified title rule. Therefore the title would be "When Harry Met Sally..." and the original title would be empty. Agreed | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Repter: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
IMO leaving the ellipsis (...) out on the cover does not justify to apply the modified title rule. Therefore the title would be "When Harry Met Sally..." and the original title would be empty.
I really wonder what the added value for that would be (or for the 'modified title' rule).
T!M's profile clearly gives more information than yours. That's why I find this rule so silly (and then I'm not even taking into consideration the fact that the field indeed says "DVD Title" as T!M discovered). You cannot simply ignore the Rules because you think the name of a fleld in DVDP seems to indicate something to you. The Rule is clear. "Use the Title in the film's credits" | | | | Hal | | | | Last edited: by hal9g |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
IMO leaving the ellipsis (...) out on the cover does not justify to apply the modified title rule. Therefore the title would be "When Harry Met Sally..." and the original title would be empty.
Time for a reality check then, instead of all this theoretic banter: out of the sixteen 'When Harry Met Sally' profiles in the DVD Profiler database, there's not a single one that has the "..." in the "title" field. Most don't even use the "original title" as well, but simply choose to disregard the original title from the credits. Not even the version that is in Hal's collection, while he was so adamant to retain the actual, on-screen title. Go figure... It sure seems that everyone favours the title from the cover. Has it occurred to you that I simply haven't gotten around to auditing this title yet?  | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 18, 2007 |  Posts: 426 |
| | Posted: | | | | You know what is so 'funny' in all these rules discussions ?
I'm pretty sure that Ken didn't scrutinize his own rules as much as we do. Yet, some people insist on following those rules to the letter, even if they somehow make little sense, assuming that that is really how Ken had intended it to be. I wouldn't be surprised that Ken is not aware of the fact that his rule says to take the title from the credits while his field is called "DVD Title".
I cannot believe that Ken wanted us to follow those rules so precisely, otherwise he would not have made them so concise and sometimes self-contradictory as the are. My major complaint with the rules is the lack of examples. Examples would clarify a lot and would probably obviate as much as half of the rules questions/discussions on this forum. |
|   | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 8,741 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
You cannot simply ignore the Rules because you think the name of a fleld in DVDP seems to indicate something to you.
The Rule is clear. "Use the Title in the film's credits" I'd say the fact that the field is called "DVD Title" in DVD Profiler itself is rather at odds with that - and yes, the name of that field does indeed indicate something to me. Apart from that, I have said from the beginning that I don't disagree with what the rules say - I just think the wording is a bit clumsy. While it's true that the rules say to take the title from the film's credits, you cannot separate that from all that follows. Taking not just that first line, but ALL the rules on titles into account, we end up with this: Use the title from the DVD cover in the "title" field, and the title as it appears on-screen in the "original title" field (only if it's different). Surely you'll agree that my handling of the 'When Harry Met Sally' example gives us everything we need to know: both the DVD title (after all: this still is DVD Profiler) and the actual on-screen title. Here we have two different versions of the titles, and two fields to put them in - why would you insist on leaving one of them out? We're perfectly equipped with two fields to handle them both: a field called "DVD Title" and a field called "Original Title". It's not exactly rocket science. Quoting hal9g: Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
IMO leaving the ellipsis (...) out on the cover does not justify to apply the modified title rule. Therefore the title would be "When Harry Met Sally..." and the original title would be empty.
Time for a reality check then, instead of all this theoretic banter: out of the sixteen 'When Harry Met Sally' profiles in the DVD Profiler database, there's not a single one that has the "..." in the "title" field. Most don't even use the "original title" as well, but simply choose to disregard the original title from the credits. Not even the version that is in Hal's collection, while he was so adamant to retain the actual, on-screen title. Go figure... It sure seems that everyone favours the title from the cover.
Has it occurred to you that I simply haven't gotten around to auditing this title yet? Which is fine, of course, I had no intention of "accusing" you of anything. I just found it funny that while there are several people arguing heatedly arguing for this, not a single entry of 'When Harry Met Sally' in the database actually contains the the actual on-screen title in the "Title" field (correctly, I might add, since that's actually the "DVD Title" field). I'll save you the work and submit an update to the U.S. version of 'When Harry Met Sally', as I feel it should be. | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,694 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
You cannot simply ignore the Rules because you think the name of a fleld in DVDP seems to indicate something to you.
The Rule is clear. "Use the Title in the film's credits"
I'd say the fact that the field is called "DVD Title" in DVD Profiler itself is rather at odds with that - and yes, the name of that field does indeed indicate something to me. Apart from that, I have said from the beginning that I don't disagree with what the rules say - I just think the wording is a bit clumsy. While it's true that the rules say to take the title from the film's credits, you cannot separate that from all that follows. Taking not just that first line, but ALL the rules on titles into account, we end up with this: Use the title from the DVD cover in the "title" field, and the title as it appears on-screen in the "original title" field (only if it's different). Surely you'll agree that my handling of the 'When Harry Met Sally' example gives us everything we need to know: both the DVD title (after all: this still is DVD Profiler) and the actual on-screen title. Here we have two different versions of the titles, and two fields to put them in - why would you insist on leaving one of them out? We're perfectly equipped with two fields to handle them both: a field called "DVD Title" and a field called "Original Title". It's not exactly rocket science.
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
IMO leaving the ellipsis (...) out on the cover does not justify to apply the modified title rule. Therefore the title would be "When Harry Met Sally..." and the original title would be empty.
Time for a reality check then, instead of all this theoretic banter: out of the sixteen 'When Harry Met Sally' profiles in the DVD Profiler database, there's not a single one that has the "..." in the "title" field. Most don't even use the "original title" as well, but simply choose to disregard the original title from the credits. Not even the version that is in Hal's collection, while he was so adamant to retain the actual, on-screen title. Go figure... It sure seems that everyone favours the title from the cover.
Has it occurred to you that I simply haven't gotten around to auditing this title yet?
Which is fine, of course, I had no intention of "accusing" you of anything. I just found it funny that while there are several people arguing heatedly arguing for this, not a single entry of 'When Harry Met Sally' in the database actually contains the the actual on-screen title in the "Title" field (correctly, I might add, since that's actually the "DVD Title" field). I'll save you the work and submit an update to the U.S. version of 'When Harry Met Sally', as I feel it should be. Stop interpreting the rules the way YOU think they should be. The title comes from the film, period. | | | John
"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again! |
| | Registered: July 7, 2007 | | Posts: 284 |
| | Posted: | | | | Pfew, I've read the entire conversation.
I must say, I'm totally with T!M on this one. It is a DVD profiler and when I look for a title on my shelves I want it to be the same title as I see in my profiler. This makes sense to me.
If the rules state otherwise (which they DON'T, considering ALL the content of the rules and not only the first sentence) then perhaps these rules should be re-opened for a redefinition (which does not imply a change in content of those rules by default).
Adhering so adamantly to the rules without supporting it as to why you think that rule should be followed to the letter (which I think it is in T!M's view) with examples and the likes smells like utter bureaucracy to me. A database and its logic is a living entity and rules and their implications should always be open for discussion / change.
Furthermore, I think that people with mostly foreign DVD's in their collection will identify with this position on the DVD title as opposed to people who mostly possess DVD's in their native language. The issue is of no consequence in the latter case (exceptions not withstanding). | | | My DVD's
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive? | | | | Last edited: by RaymondG |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
You cannot simply ignore the Rules because you think the name of a fleld in DVDP seems to indicate something to you.
The Rule is clear. "Use the Title in the film's credits"
I'd say the fact that the field is called "DVD Title" in DVD Profiler itself is rather at odds with that - and yes, the name of that field does indeed indicate something to me. Apart from that, I have said from the beginning that I don't disagree with what the rules say - I just think the wording is a bit clumsy. While it's true that the rules say to take the title from the film's credits, you cannot separate that from all that follows. Taking not just that first line, but ALL the rules on titles into account, we end up with this: Use the title from the DVD cover in the "title" field, and the title as it appears on-screen in the "original title" field (only if it's different). Surely you'll agree that my handling of the 'When Harry Met Sally' example gives us everything we need to know: both the DVD title (after all: this still is DVD Profiler) and the actual on-screen title. Here we have two different versions of the titles, and two fields to put them in - why would you insist on leaving one of them out? We're perfectly equipped with two fields to handle them both: a field called "DVD Title" and a field called "Original Title". It's not exactly rocket science.
Quoting hal9g:
Quote:
Quoting T!M:
Quote:
Quoting RHo:
Quote:
IMO leaving the ellipsis (...) out on the cover does not justify to apply the modified title rule. Therefore the title would be "When Harry Met Sally..." and the original title would be empty.
Time for a reality check then, instead of all this theoretic banter: out of the sixteen 'When Harry Met Sally' profiles in the DVD Profiler database, there's not a single one that has the "..." in the "title" field. Most don't even use the "original title" as well, but simply choose to disregard the original title from the credits. Not even the version that is in Hal's collection, while he was so adamant to retain the actual, on-screen title. Go figure... It sure seems that everyone favours the title from the cover.
Has it occurred to you that I simply haven't gotten around to auditing this title yet?
Which is fine, of course, I had no intention of "accusing" you of anything. I just found it funny that while there are several people arguing heatedly arguing for this, not a single entry of 'When Harry Met Sally' in the database actually contains the the actual on-screen title in the "Title" field (correctly, I might add, since that's actually the "DVD Title" field). I'll save you the work and submit an update to the U.S. version of 'When Harry Met Sally', as I feel it should be. Once again Tim, you are creating a justification to fit your desire to manipulate the database to YOUR preferences. something which I am seeing all too often. Blunt but that's what I see. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
Stop interpreting the rules the way YOU think they should be. Too right! You are supposed to interpret them the way *I* think they should be. Didn't you get the memo?  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Unicus: I demand to see your contract, where does it say you are allowed to be funnier than me.  Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,741 |
| | Posted: | | | | Only one thing fits here:  I am very much convinced that I'm not making a false interpretation here. I tried to demonstrate this using a very simply example. Here we have a DVD cover that says 'When Harry Met Sally'. However, the actual credits say 'When Harry Met Sally...' While some of you may consider this difference insignificant - it IS a difference nonetheless. Here I am, editing a profile, and I have these two (slightly) different titles. I edit the profile, and what do I see: a field called "DVD Title" and a field called "Original Title" (let's leave "Sort Title" out of this - we all know where that is meant for). To me, it isn't that hard to figure out where to enter both titles:  I don't understand how you can possibly come to another conclusion. I also find it rather amusing that a number of people here keep saying "no, the title should come from the credits", but that on checking of the various 'When Harry Met Sally'-profiles, not a single one actually does so. Once again: I really don't feel that I'm disagreeing with the rules on this - I feel I'm working perfectly within the rules, actually - I just think things could have been put a bit simpler; that's all I've been saying. If you take the whole page of rules on titles, you'll see that this is the only correct way to enter the title for 'When Harry Met Sally', despite that first line says: "Use the title from the film's credits." Don't get hung up on that first line, and also try to remember that the first line of that page was written way before the "Original Title" field was added. Why would anyone choose to list only one of both variations of the title (and strangely everyone went with the one from the cover, not the one from the credits), when we have two fields to list them both? | | | | Last edited: by T!M |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | It might surprise you to know that, during the last rule revision (which was never used), it was suggested that we change this rule. I still think it is a good idea to do so. Everyone always says that thi is 'DVD Profiler' not 'Movie Profiler'. If that is the case, then it only makes sense to use the DVD title. My suggestion would be to change the 'Original Title' field to 'Movie Title'...but that's just me.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting T!M: Quote:
Only one thing fits here:
I am very much convinced that I'm not making a false interpretation here. I tried to demonstrate this using a very simply example. Here we have a DVD cover that says 'When Harry Met Sally'. However, the actual credits say 'When Harry Met Sally...'
While some of you may consider this difference insignificant - it IS a difference nonetheless. Here I am, editing a profile, and I have these two (slightly) different titles. I edit the profile, and what do I see: a field called "DVD Title" and a field called "Original Title" (let's leave "Sort Title" out of this - we all know where that is meant for). To me, it isn't that hard to figure out where to enter both titles:
I don't understand how you can possibly come to another conclusion. I also find it rather amusing that a number of people here keep saying "no, the title should come from the credits", but that on checking of the various 'When Harry Met Sally'-profiles, not a single one actually does so. Once again: I really don't feel that I'm disagreeing with the rules on this - I feel I'm working perfectly within the rules, actually - I just think things could have been put a bit simpler; that's all I've been saying. If you take the whole page of rules on titles, you'll see that this is the only correct way to enter the title for 'When Harry Met Sally', despite that first line says: "Use the title from the film's credits." Don't get hung up on that first line, and also try to remember that the first line of that page was written way before the "Original Title" field was added. Why would anyone choose to list only one of both variations of the title (and strangely everyone went with the one from the cover, not the one from the credits), when we have two fields to list them both? Tim: Follow the Rules and stop trying to interpret them to fit your vision. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | I keep reading and rereading the rules. I think there are only two reasonable solutions to this DVD -- and I really don't care because I neither own the DVD nor do I expect to do so. At first, I believe the modified title rule, using "There's Something MORE about Mary" fits. The title of the film, taken from the credits clearly is "When Harry Met Sally..." But the DVD cover, like "...MORE about Mary" differs, leaving off the ellipsis. If we (logically) can follow the modified title rule then the DVD title is "When Harry Met Sally" and the original title is "When Harry Met Sally..." But if we do not consider the dropping of the ellipsis as a modified title, the title is simply "When Harry Met Sally..." because the title comes from the opening credits. I suspect the modified title rule is the best solution for this DVD. But again, it matters not to me... | | | If it wasn't for bad taste, I wouldn't have no taste at all.
Cliff |
| | T!M | | Profiling since Dec. 2000 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 8,741 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Tim:
Follow the Rules and stop trying to interpret them to fit your vision.
Skip Once again: I feel I am following the rules! I thought you even agreed with me back on page three when I first referred to the 'When Harry Met Sally' example... |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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