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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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Thanks Ireland! |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,744 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
I am in your debt. Once again we weren't allowed to vote, but you did the right thing! One might not share my opinion or even be totally opposed to it, but who did I offend do deserve a red arrow? | | | Karsten
DVD Collectors Online
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| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 1,242 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting DJ Doena: Quote:
One might not share my opinion or even be totally opposed to it, but who did I offend do deserve a red arrow? Must have somebody that works for the EU Commision on the Forum's  Steve |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,242 |
| | Posted: | | | | As an update to the Irish No vote, this was printed in today's Daily Mail.
Neither David Milliband nor Andy Burnham, both mentioned as future Labour leaders, did much for their reputations when asked on TV if Ireland's "No" vote meant the latest EU constitutional treaty was dead. They couldn't bring themselves to say so.
The position is (or should be) simple: In the EU's all-or-nothing rules, if one of the 27 EU nations turns down the Lisbon Treaty, then the treaty's dead. But they won't say so. It's a topic for future discussion, they say. This is what enrages so many people, especially in Britian. 'They' won't take 'NO' for an answer. They'll simply rejig the question and submit it again, and again, until we all give in. Which, no doubt, we will.
One Irish commentator offered the thought that he had been for the treaty because it reduced the power of the twisted local politicians he despised. Even when it meant increasing the power of the people over whom he had no control whatsoever.
If that's a silver lining, it's not a cloud we are up against. It's perpetual night.
So it would seem even the Irish people know that all the power would transfer to Brussel, with no say by any local person on what happens locally. About time some of these so-called local elected representatives listened to what the people want and not whats good for their own wallets.
Steve |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 1,982 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Skywatcher: Quote:
But, since our American friends didn't saw much coverage of the subject I though I'd leave here just one of several examples of how much "informative" and "unbiased" the NO campaign was:
. Desinformation is just something usual with any referendum we have seen the same thing here in the Province of Quebec in our last two. I think that it's an insult to the average Joe to say that he can't see this for what it is. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Skywatcher: Quote:
I won't really be getting into this one, and I was even reluctant to write this, as I assume I might be a little too opinionated on this particular matter, due to my personal history.
But, since our American friends didn't saw much coverage of the subject I though I'd leave here just one of several examples of how much "informative" and "unbiased" the NO campaign was:
This is taking advantage of the average Joe's ignorance on the text of the treaty (and laziness to try and know better) to make up all kinds of lies using primary fears just to get votes. Although it may have been somewhat exaggerated, don't rule out chipping. It's already happening. Here in the U.S. RFID is big business and there are aready test beds in the country using RFID embedded chips with RFID readers in high profile areas for tracking purposes. Everytime an individual with one of these imbedded chips passes to within 20-30 feet of a reader, all their personal data is transmitted to a centralized database. What will be done with this info? Who knows  . The produce company that I work for is the nation’s first RFID cold-chain produce testing center for RFID use in produce tracking through the supply chain to the consumer. Once we get it to work properly in a "wet environment" it will become the standard in the nation. So, don't think that it won't happen...it will. It's only a matter of time that all citizens will be required to be "chipped". Number of the Beast...anyone? . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 630 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting 8ballMax: Quote:
So, don't think that it won't happen...it will. It's only a matter of time that all citizens will be required to be "chipped". Number of the Beast...anyone? . It could very well happen, but I doubt the Lisbon treaty will have a big affect on it happening or not. Hence the scare tactics. I also saw posters recommending voting no to stop privatization of schools and healthcare. | | | Regards
Lars |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting lmoelleb: Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
So, don't think that it won't happen...it will. It's only a matter of time that all citizens will be required to be "chipped". Number of the Beast...anyone? .
It could very well happen, but I doubt the Lisbon treaty will have a big affect on it happening or not. Hence the scare tactics. I also saw posters recommending voting no to stop privatization of schools and healthcare. Possibly not. But once individual liberties, whether on the individual or state level, this includes the right to vote, are reduced or taken away entirely, it's only a matter of time that those in power will abuse that power...for the "good of the people"  . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 1,380 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting snarbo: Quote:
The position is (or should be) simple: In the EU's all-or-nothing rules, if one of the 27 EU nations turns down the Lisbon Treaty, then the treaty's dead. But they won't say so. It's a topic for future discussion, they say. This is what enrages so many people, especially in Britian. 'They' won't take 'NO' for an answer. They'll simply rejig the question and submit it again, and again, until we all give in. Which, no doubt, we will. Sweden voted no on Euro (eventhough they should have implemented it. AFAIK only Britain and Denmark have the right to decline it at the moment), still nobody is forcing it on them. They are now planning on what to do with the Lisbon Treaty, one way would be to leave Ireland out of it or give Ireland some special rules, either way they took Irelands No, as a No. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,242 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting whispering: Quote:
AFAIK only Britain and Denmark have the right to decline it at the moment), still nobody is forcing it on them. They are now planning on what to do with the Lisbon Treaty, one way would be to leave Ireland out of it or give Ireland some special rules, either way they took Irelands No, as a No. Whispering...your still not listening to what I am saying, we the British public were promised a referendum on the European issue by our present government in their election manifesto, which they are now declining to give us, since they have got into power, we won't be able to vote them out for going back on that promise for at least two more years, not a lot of good if they decide to take us in tomorrow (doubtful, but possible). According the EU own rules ALL 27 nations have to vote yes, Ireland have voted No, but they are now looking at ways to enforce it without the All 27 Yes votes, therefore breaking their own rules. You wait and see, once they are voted in you will have an un-elected power source decide what you can and cannot do and you won't be able to do anything about it. Steve | | | | Last edited: by snarbo |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,380 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting snarbo: Quote:
Whispering...your still not listening to what I am saying, we the British public were promised a referendum on the European issue by our present government in their election manifesto, which they are now declining to give us, since they have got into power, we won't be able to vote them out for going back on that promise for at least two more years, not a lot of good if they decide to take us in tomorrow (doubtful, but possible).
According the EU own rules ALL 27 nations have to vote yes, Ireland have voted No, but they are now looking at ways to enforce it without the All 27 Yes votes, therefore breaking their own rules. You wait and see, once they are voted in you will have an un-elected power source decide what you can and cannot do and you won't be able to do anything about it.
Steve No, i think you dont understand. I said that i agree UK should get their referendum if the politicians made an election promise to do so. But that is not EU's issue. That is an issue of your country and your government. The reason why we need this treaty in the first place is because asking all 27 countries to vote yes on something is just never going to happen. Or if it does, it would recuire years of burecracy. If all countries agree, the requirment to have 27 countries is not needed. I'm sure there are many other ways to deal with the issue, so i'm not really comfortable even speculating what it might be. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 1,380 |
| | Posted: | | | | | | | | Last edited: by whispering |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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