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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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NRA - Monumental Victory |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 489 |
| | Posted: | | | | All I know is I am a friend of a woman who lives in an apartment with a so called gate that will keep unauthorized people out. When a man broke into her apartment and told her at gunpoint to remove her clothes or he would kill her. What he did not know is she had a concealed gun carry permit. So as she undressed she was able to get her gun, and she shot first. (Much Like Han Solo.) While he was not killed he ran away leaving a trail of blood. After she called 911 the police were able to follow him, and he was arrested.Turns out he was responsible for over 6 rapes in the area. He was also on parole, and the law forbade him to have a gun.
So to sum it up, a criminal got an illegal gun, but was stopped by a law abiding citizen.
The old saying, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." has rung true to me for awhile.
I also love a bumber sticker I once saw, "Politicians fear a armed populace." The amendment was written after the British army confiscated the guns of colonists.
I am not a gun owner as I have a history of depression, but feel safer living nest to an retired marine who does.
Oh the bloodbath antigun folks claimed would happen when the concealed law was passed have been proven wrong. Murder & Rape in my city has gone down.
Bobb | | | | Do Cheshire Cats drink evaporated milk? | | | | Last edited: by bobb |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mdnitoil: Quote:
Ahhh....but the other side sure was saying it when they were running. Repeating election hyperbole doesn't make it fact. Every 4 years the sky will fall in and mothers will weep if candidate X gets elected, and every 4 years we manage to survive. Well, okay, this last guy has been an unmitigated disaster but we'll survive him as well. I believe that history will show 43 to be a far better President than the kool-aid drinkers, think he is, and that 42 will not be anywhere near as good as they believe him to be. However , at this historical juncture, no one can deny that Jimmy Carter was absolute and abominable FAILURE as President...and I voted for him...Once,,,just ONCE. The man was and is a loon, hindsight is a wonderful thing. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bobb: Quote:
All I know is I am a friend of a woman who lives in an apartment with a so called gate that will keep unauthorized people out. When a man broke into her apartment and told her at gunpoint to remove her clothes or he would kill her. What he did not know is she had a concealed gun carry permit. So as she undressed she was able to get her gun, and she shot first. (Much Like Han Solo.) While he was not killed he ran away leaving a trail of blood. After she called 911 the police were able to follow him, and he was arrested.Turns out he was responsible for over 6 rapes in the area. He was also on parole, and the law forbade him to have a gun.
So to sum it up, a criminal got an illegal gun, but was stopped by a law abiding citizen.
The old saying, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." has rung true to me for awhile.
I also love a bumber sticker I once saw, "Politicians fear a armed populace." The amendment was written after the British army confiscated the guns of colonists.
I am not a gun owner as I have a history of depression, but feel safer living nest to an retired marine who does.
Oh the bloodbath antigun folks claimed would happen when the concealed law was passed have been proven wrong. Murder & Rape in my city has gone down.
Bobb Truer words were never written. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 |  Posts: 374 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting bobb: Quote:
All I know is I am a friend of a woman who lives in an apartment with a so called gate that will keep unauthorized people out. When a man broke into her apartment and told her at gunpoint to remove her clothes or he would kill her. What he did not know is she had a concealed gun carry permit. So as she undressed she was able to get her gun, and she shot first. (Much Like Han Solo.) While he was not killed he ran away leaving a trail of blood. After she called 911 the police were able to follow him, and he was arrested.Turns out he was responsible for over 6 rapes in the area. He was also on parole, and the law forbade him to have a gun.
So to sum it up, a criminal got an illegal gun, but was stopped by a law abiding citizen.
The old saying, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." has rung true to me for awhile.
I also love a bumber sticker I once saw, "Politicians fear a armed populace." The amendment was written after the British army confiscated the guns of colonists.
I am not a gun owner as I have a history of depression, but feel safer living nest to an retired marine who does.
Oh the bloodbath antigun folks claimed would happen when the concealed law was passed have been proven wrong. Murder & Rape in my city has gone down.
Bobb MYTH: Keeping guns in the home increases personal protection. TRUTH: Obviously, self defense is not a good argument against gun control since those who own firearms are actually more likely to be victims of homicide. Two studies published in The New England Journal of Medicine revealed that keeping a gun in the home increases the risk of both suicide and homicide. Keeping a gun in the home makes it 2.7 times more likely that someone will be a victim of homicide in your home (in almost all cases the victim is either related to or intimately acquainted with the murderer) and 4.8 times more likely that someone will commit suicide. Guns make it more likely that a suicide attempt will be successful than if other means were used such as sleeping pills. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting sugarjoe: Quote:
MYTH: Keeping guns in the home increases personal protection.
Break into my house, and I'll show you just how protected I am!  | | | | Hal |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting sugarjoe: Quote:
MYTH: Keeping guns in the home increases personal protection. Unless you believe bobb to be a liar, it is not a myth to the person who saved herself frome being raped. I am quite sure she would say it is quite true. Quote:
TRUTH: Obviously, self defense is not a good argument against gun control since those who own firearms are actually more likely to be victims of homicide. Two studies published in The New England Journal of Medicine revealed that keeping a gun in the home increases the risk of both suicide and homicide. Keeping a gun in the home makes it 2.7 times more likely that someone will be a victim of homicide in your home (in almost all cases the victim is either related to or intimately acquainted with the murderer) and 4.8 times more likely that someone will commit suicide. Guns make it more likely that a suicide attempt will be successful than if other means were used such as sleeping pills. It is only obvious to people who buy into the spin. First, suicide rates have nothing to do with 'self defense'. Second, what was the study based on? What was the controp group? What other factors were involved? No need to answer as I went and looked it up for myself. The article can be found here. The conclusion is as follows: Conclusions The use of illicit drugs and a history of physical fights in the home are important risk factors for homicide in the home. Rather than confer protection, guns kept in the home are associated with an increase in the risk of homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.So, when illicit drugs and a history of physical fights are part of the mix, keeping a gun in the house increases the risk of homicide? Did we really need a study to tell us that? It seems fairly obvious to me. I do find it funny that nobody ever quotes the first half of that conclusion.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 24, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,044 |
| | Posted: | | | | @Unicus, To quote the first part of the conclusion would ruin the spindoctor's spiin.  Rory  (P.S. I own a Colt Commander .45 and a Remington Model 700 in .308 (7.62 mm NATO.)) | | | DVD Profiler for iOS as of 3/5/2013
DVD Profiler for Android as of 5/17/2013 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 4,596 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Giga Wizard: Quote:
Quoting 8ballMax:
Quote:
Murder and manslaughter in the U.S.: 16,137 cases in 2004 (5.5 per 100,000 inhabitants). Percent change compared to 2003: -2.4
Murder and manslaughter (moord en doodslag) in Belgium: 959 cases in 2004 (9.1 per 100,000 inhabitants). Percent change compared to 2003: +11.12
Way to go  .
Statistics prove anything. Those Belgium numbers include attempts Quote:
(voltooide (accomplished) misdrijven (crimes) en (and) pogingen (attempt))
in 2003 we had a population of 10,355,844 and 871 Murder and manslaughter crimes, accomplished and attempts. If you compare these to:
in 2003 a population of 2,898,374 (1/3±) and 598 (2/3±) murder cases, that tells a whole other story. Attempts? Ahhh...I see. So the Norwegians are lousy shots. Can't be perfect I guess . | | | | My WebGenDVD online Collection |
| | Registered: April 8, 2007 | | Posts: 1,057 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hi Guys,
I'm not into hunting personally, but hope you 'legal' hunters do not get skunked, on your commune with nature. Managed game species populations tend to remain stable or flourish.
The next group of gun zealots seem to be poor. Let me explain. Look at yearly incomes of a population as a bell curve, the further left you are from the median, the less income you have. So your more inclined, to choose a gun, to enhance yourself. Going back to the bell curve, we see we have a small per centage of poor, & small number of very wealthy, with the vast majority of the population hoovering around the median. Hmmmmm! Knowing the facts of this population, society needs to care for that small per cent of people, that can't compete. We should strive to render guns insignificant, in settling problems.
Take Care
Rico | | | If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | What exactly do you base these generalizations on? Every report I have ever read indicates that gun ownership is lower among people in low-income households, and higher among people in middle class homes. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
What exactly do you base these generalizations on? Every report I have ever read indicates that gun ownership is lower among people in low-income households, and higher among people in middle class homes. I absolutely agree. Now to Rico's comments relative to settling arguments. I could draw an entertaining parallel but I won't, I digress. A couple of weekends ago DC had 8 shooting, just a tad excessive, and every one of them involved using guns to settle disagreements.. This leads me to another opinion of mine based on many years of observation. I hear the African-American leadership decry the idea that a disproportionate number of Black males are in prison. For whatever reasons, and personally I blame the generally weak family structure in that community, but I would say that the reason for the large percentage of black males in prison has nothing toi do with policecracism, or racism oif any kind, I believe it is because as a group (not individulas) they simply do not know how to behave themselves. Evidence for this; a black neighborhood gets mad, they riot and ythey burn down their OWN neighborhood...BRILLIANT...and then cry about it. Washington DC wants to granted statehood but believes like a city of juvenile delinquents...including some of the politicians.. They want statehood, they need act like a city that can take the responsibility. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 4,672 |
| | Posted: | | | | It's not the criminals that worry me about the US gun laws, it's the "law abiding citizens". How many people have been shot by mistake because someone thought they were intruders? People have even shot their own kids, for goodness sake!
Bobb's story seems to me somewhat akin to the arguments against using seat belts because you can get trapped in a burning car. Yes, there are times when seat belt can kill you, but you are way more likely to be saved by your seat belt than be killed by it.
By the same token, yes, there are times when having a handgun might save you, but it's far more likely to cause a disaster.
To those pooh-poohing sugerjoe's post, are you saying that those studies published in The New England Journal of Medicine are wrong, and if so, what do you base that on? | | | My freeware tools for DVD Profiler users.
Gunnar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,022 |
| | Posted: | | | | For all those who feel 'safer' having a gun in their house for 'self-defence', I find that a sad reflection of todays society and the violence within it, I would dread ever feeling such a thing was necessary in UK. Perhaps I am naive or ill-informed, but I don't feel threatened in my home.
Hunting, whether I like the idea of killing a living thing for sport is irrelevant, I support the freedom of individuals to choose how they live. We have had similar ongoing hunting issues in the UK (fox hunting etc) where the PC brigade have made a mockery of many traditional sports and pastimes. | | |  | | | | Last edited: by hayley taylor |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,394 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
It's not the criminals that worry me about the US gun laws, it's the "law abiding citizens". How many people have been shot by mistake because someone thought they were intruders? People have even shot their own kids, for goodness sake! Accidental shootings are very rare in the US. The numbers of people shot by accident are far outweighed by the number of people who successfuly protect themselves with a firearm. The news media does not report the number of cases where someone is successful in protecting himself. That doesn't suit with their philosophy that "guns are bad,bad things." Quote:
By the same token, yes, there are times when having a handgun might save you, but it's far more likely to cause a disaster. Statistics do not support this conclusion. It's anti-gun propaganda at its worst. Quote:
To those pooh-poohing sugerjoe's post, are you saying that those studies published in The New England Journal of Medicine are wrong, and if so, what do you base that on? The main thing that is wrong with those studies is that they only look at cases where someone has been shot. It's a lot easier to report numbers of shootings than it is to report the number of cases where someone has successfully protected him or herself. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole)
Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges.
DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting GSyren: Quote:
It's not the criminals that worry me about the US gun laws, it's the "law abiding citizens". How many people have been shot by mistake because someone thought they were intruders? People have even shot their own kids, for goodness sake! Accidents happen, but you are far more likely to be killed in an automobile accident than you are in a gun related accident. Quote:
Bobb's story seems to me somewhat akin to the arguments against using seat belts because you can get trapped in a burning car. Yes, there are times when seat belt can kill you, but you are way more likely to be saved by your seat belt than be killed by it.
By the same token, yes, there are times when having a handgun might save you, but it's far more likely to cause a disaster. This simply isn't true. There are no studies, at least none that I have read, that can honestly make this claim. Quote:
To those pooh-poohing sugerjoe's post, are you saying that those studies published in The New England Journal of Medicine are wrong, and if so, what do you base that on? I never said they were wrong. I am, however, saying they are flawed and have an agenda. From the studies... Alcohol was more commonly consumed by one or more members of the households of case subjects than by members of the households of controls (Table 3). Alcohol was also more commonly consumed by the case subjects themselves than by their matched controls. Case subjects were reported to have manifested behavioral correlates of alcoholism (such as trouble at work due to drinking) much more often than matched controls. Illicit-drug use (by the case subject or another household member) was also reported more commonly by case households than control households.Previous episodes of violence were reported more frequently by members of case households. When asked if anyone in the household had ever been hit or hurt in a fight in the home, 31.8 percent of the proxies for the case subjects answered affirmatively, as compared with only 5.7 percent of controls. Physical fights in the home while household members were drinking and fighting severe enough to cause injuries were reported much more commonly by case proxies than controls. One or more members of the case households were also more likely to have been arrested or to have been involved in a physical fight outside the home than members of control households.The case subjects were more likely to abuse drugs and alcohol, had more episodes of domestic violence, were more likely to have been arrested and more likely to have been in a physical fight outside of the home. With all those factors in mind, the study determinded that gun ownership was a risk factor for homicide in the home. Funny, it looks to me like drugs, alcohol and living with a violent person are the risk factors. To be fair, they do come to the same conclusion I did and they do mention it in the study. They say, "The use of illicit drugs and a history of physical fights in the home are also important risk factors." But that isn't what they want you to focus on, which is why I say they had an agenda. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar | | | | Last edited: by TheMadMartian |
| | Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Posts: 374 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Unless you believe bobb to be a liar, it is not a myth to the person who saved herself frome being raped. I am quite sure she would say it is quite true. And if you think one example is good enough to make a generalisation, then you need to learn the basics of a decent discussion. (Yes, I know this is a personal comment, but connecting me with the the term liar is completly uncalled for.  ) | | | | Last edited: by sugarjoe |
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