Quote:

If I'm not mistaken there just might be one or two monarchies in Europe????

Quote:
Quoting lmoelleb:

Quote:
Why do you consider it a democratic failure of another country that it alligns it's politics to the oppinion of it's citizens instead of alligning them to the US oppinion?

I never said that.  I said I don't want your social democracy here.

Quote:

Moving to the right (not sure I agree) is relative isn't it?

Quote:

  If this is true it is re-assuring that some recognize the dangers of moving to close to the socialist model.

Quote:
Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
Quoting Astrakan:

Quote:
Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
I challenge you to show me a single socialist country that you think offers a better opportunity for real success (not just meeting the basic survival needs) for everyone than the U.S.

Define "real success" please.

KM

Self-actualization!

Ah, okay. That makes it easy. I was wondering if by "real success" you meant extreme wealth - in which case you'd probably be correct when saying the U.S. system offers the best chance for everyone to achieve it.

I'm assuming you're using Maslow's definition of self-actualization. In which case I would argue that citizens of most social democratic nations (or by "socialist country" were you referring only to true socialist countries?) have a better shot at achieving self-actualization than citizens of the U.S.

My reasoning for this is that one of the basic ideas behind social democracy is to provide for each citizen what forms the basis of Maslow's hierarcy of needs. Once the basics have been provided (food, water, security, shelter, health...) the rest is more of a psychological journey primarily involving confidence in yourself.

So, since the first few steps are taken care of simply by living in a social democracy, a larger percentage of the population in those countries are able to focus their energy at achieving self-actualization, compared to countries with a more right-wing philosophy where a portion of the population will spend considerable effort at meeting the basics of Maslow's hierarcy before they can pursue self-actualization.

I would also argue that the U.S. system does offer a better chance to achieve self-actualization for some people, but that's not what you said. You said a better chance to achieve real success/self-actualization for everyone.

KM

Quote:
Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
Attaining the first (or second) level is not close to self-actualization

True. But they are necessary steps towards achieving it. And in social democracies those steps are easier to achieve than in the U.S.

Quote:

Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
No one can achieve self-actualization without attaining self-reliance first.  Dependence on the government (or any other person or entity) for ANY of your survival needs will never allow you to achieve self-actualization because of a simple reality:

Those that giveth, can taketh away!

This is all opinion. Maslow doesn't take self-reliance into account. And besides, utilizing the social programs made available in a social democracy doesn't automatically make someone not self-reliant.

Granted, I'd agree that an over-use of social programs can definitely have that effect, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about the "opportunity for real success/self-actualization." Some people in social democracy won't need the help their government is willing to give them, and more power to them, but some people do and for them it is easier to achieve self-actualization than if they lived in a country where the help they need isn't available.

KM

Quote:
Quoting Rifter:

Quote:
..., but we also elect the national leader, the president.  Parliamentary systems typically only have one house elected by the people.  The upper house is usually appointed, and the national leader is the prime minister, the head of the coalition party in power.  As we have seen over the years in Israel, a crisis of confidence in the PM can bring down the coalition and create a national emergency.

As we have seen over the last 8 years in the USA, a president can ruin your countries reputation in the rest of the world.

Quote:
Quoting lmoelleb:

Quote:
Quoting hal9g:

Quote:
And just in case you missed this in school, but the U.S is a representative democracy and we'd like to keep it that way.  Kindly keep your social democracy in Britain and Europe, thank you very much!

Yes, we where tought that the US was a representative democracy. Out of curiosity, what makes you think the European nations are not representative democracies? I admit Switzerland is a bit on the fence here, as they do lean towards direct democracy instead of representative democracy.

Please remember not to mistake the democratic choice of a polulation as undemocratic, just because they make another decission than what you would.

There is a huge difference between a "republic" which is what the US is, and a parliamentary democracy, which is what most of the countries in Europe are.  We elect not only our representatives and senators from each state, but we also elect the national leader, the president.  Parliamentary systems typically only have one house elected by the people.  The upper house is usually appointed, and the national leader is the prime minister, the head of the coalition party in power.  As we have seen over the years in Israel, a crisis of confidence in the PM can bring down the coalition and create a national emergency.

Quote:
Quoting hydr0x:

Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:
"A person willing to sacrifice his liberty for security, deserves neither."
                                                                        Benjamin Franklin

Skip

someone should have told George W.

Name a single liberty that any citizen of the United States has been deprived of.

Skip