Quoting VibroCount:

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Quoting dee1959jay:

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I wonder how "socially progressive" you'd be if it is YOUR DVD collection that's being stolen and the place where YOU live that's being ransacked and burnt down.

But of course! Anyone who steals your DVDs should be shot on site! Because cowboy justice is the only real justice we can tolerate. 

I don't recall saying anything about, let alone condoning, shooting anyone on site. Others did, but not me. So please be careful in the assumptions you make about other people's attitudes, especially people you don't know in the first place.

Quoting ya_shin:

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I saw a video last night that made me feel incredibly sad.

A young man was sitting on the side of the street, blood dripping down from his nose(?). Then two other guys come and help the man up. Once he is up, they begin to loot the disoriented guy's backpack! From what I read around the video, the young man's jaw had been broken, which I suppose caused his drowsiness.

I am still sick to my stomach from seeing that and don't even want to search out the video again for linking here.

I saw that video too, it was pretty sickening and depressing.  Poor guy.

Having spent significant chucks of my life as a community worker in both inner London and Belfast, I’ve worked with a lot of people that the media has started again now to label “the underclass”.  The people involved are all individuals and have a wide range of motivations and weaknesses for being involved in crime and more generally in anti-social behaviour.  To label them as if they’re all the same is unfair to them and entirely unhelpful.  It’s like me saying I’m English and everyone else is “foreign” and all foreigners are the same.

Society puts a wide range of pressures on people, much of it cleverly and subtlety directed by large companies.  The point of all this is to sell stuff and make money.  (Simply put this is the capitalist system).  As a result, it’s very hard for people to resist this; in fact most people don’t even notice it’s effects or acknowledge its existence consciously, as it permeates just about everything from the moment you’re born; a bit like oxygen for breathing.  Don’t get me wrong, I like the system in many ways and it enables me to do better than others and have more than my fair share of things.

However, this pressure leads to a lot of ‘stupid’ behaviour.  It makes many young girls (and increasingly boys) want to be thin so badly that they become anorexic, people who work want to earn more (even those that already have plenty), or do things that they know is bad for themselves (eg smoke), others (eg drive too fast) or the environment (eg drive gas guzzlers).  Looting and rioting are just another symptom.  It’s a combination of our conditioned human nature; expecting someone to simply resist it is denying this very nature.

This means the more you have the less likely you are to want change; the less you have the more you want things to change.  The pressure to want more is great and recently the ways to get it legitimately are being seen as increasingly difficult and slow.  Critically, more people are also falling into this latter way of thinking, given the economic situation many are having to deal with.  Those involved in the looting and rioting have simply found a new way to get more.  The constant bombardment of (especially) young people by images designed to make them want it all yesterday and desire the unattainable, almost amounts to a form of brainwashing.  Ever seen documentaries on TV about people who live in mud huts with next to no property or belongings?  Provided they have access to the basic human needs (companionship, shelter, food, health), they often seem very happy.  Why?  Perhaps they just don’t live in a society that values having stuff over nearly everything else?

By all means “flog ‘em and hang ‘em”, but unless we look at our whole system, there will always be a group of people who choose to do this sort of thing.  In times of stress (and look at the economic and environmental problems at present), this group will grow larger and their collective actions will get noticed more and more.

The solution very simply is for people to want less stuff.  We don't live in a sustainable way anyhow, so we may as well try to manage this process rather than ignore it as we do at present, it's going to happen one way or another whether we like it or not.  All that's happening now is that the rich are getting richer and the poorer are getting poorer, as the rich (who make the decisions and have the power to manipulate society) are protecting their own interests, which effectively means reducing what everyone else can get as there's less to go around and what there is is getting more expensive.  Trying to deal with looters and those rioting in a simplistic way fails to deal with the reasons and makes the assumption that those involved can be taught to resist the pressures they're put under; sorry, this simply isn't going to happen.  Look at how much time and money it took to make drink-driving seem unacceptable socially; and that was just one issue and some people still do it anyway.

Okay rant over.

Quoting ya_shin:

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I saw a video last night that made me feel incredibly sad.

A young man was sitting on the side of the street, blood dripping down from his nose(?). Then two other guys come and help the man up. Once he is up, they begin to loot the disoriented guy's backpack! From what I read around the video, the young man's jaw had been broken, which I suppose caused his drowsiness.

I am still sick to my stomach from seeing that and don't even want to search out the video again for linking here.

That would be the video I linked to in my first post in this thread.

The young man is a Malaysian student whose jaw was broken in an earlier attack.
More about him here
and here.

Much to his credit, he said he felt sorry for those who attacked and robbed him, and after surgery in which a metal plate was put in his jaw, he told reporters he resisted his mum's appeal to come home, saying that "Britain is great".

Three people have been murdered defending their homes from looters.

It doesn't matter what your circumstances, upbringing or financial status there is absolutely no excuse or justification for these acts.

I agree with Sam. There is always a choice. I have been unemployed for long spells in my life (at one point I was feeding myself and my two cats on nothing but cheap burgers) but I didn't go out and steal or vandalise or kill people.

It's the difference between knowing what is right and what is wrong.

These rioters know what they have been doing is wrong, and yet they choose to continue to break the law. As far as I am concerned they deserve the strongest possible punishments.

Agreed! 

Quoting pauls42:

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Quoting Pantheon:

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Three people have been murdered defending their homes from looters.

the total has now reached 5 people who have been killed by rioters. (the 5th was announced this morning).

There would have been a far different outcome if they'd shown up at my house!

I just cannot believe that some people here really try to defend the frelling looters and criminals.
So easy to blame everything on society (others) and not taking responsibility for your actions.

Everyone has a chance to decide what to do in life, and those scumbags decided to rob honest peoples homes, set factories and stores on fire, that were built with hard work of the working class people who own them.

And I say it again, those thugs should be shot on sight, they are no use for the society, they just harm others and destroy what honest people have built up during their lifes.
How would YOU feel if they set your store that feeds your family on fire ?
Would you say, ah nevermind, just go on, society treated you oh so bad....

England, get rid of the scumbags!

Donnie