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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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 Discussion on Credited As field (Locked) |
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| Author |
Message |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 2,372 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Unlike you, I am swamped right now Missed that on my last reply. I see you're already starting with the "I do more than you" stuff. What did that take, 48 hours  Do what you will. You're going to anyway. I'll not drag down the forum any more with it though. To Gerri and Ken If this attitude keeps up I will predict (based on past experience) that some of the new faces and returning faces will disappear real quick again. There are many who left IVS simply because they did not enjoy being there anymore. The bullying attitude from one or two people was a huge reason (based on private conversation I had with people). |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Your choice and totally expected response, Rick  What swamped means simply put is that I spent 14 hours sending up my entire collection and wishlist. Now I am coping with over 3000 updates and correcting things as I go. Most of the changes are minor, but some of them aren't. I expressed a legitimate concern, which has been resolved NO THANKS TO YOU, I might add. Unicus was kind of enough to actually sort out what I was talking about and provide me the answer I wanted to see. And your response is instead of to drop it, you want to continue acting like a complete jerk. Just keep it up. You need to join, Hal and drop the pompous self-righteous attitude, and instead of behaving like a child. Try and sort out my comments, and help me resolve an issue I see, if you can; that would be far more appreciated than your ceaseless snotty comments. Maybe you aren't capable of sorting out my concerns...that's fine, I won't abuse for that, but if you aren't thenm stay out of it. Insrtead of creating this atmosphere where we have page after page of CRAP. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Get real. How many R1 releases have that problem with Asian names?
John,
We are not talking about R1 releases. I am talking about Asian actors in Asian movies in Asian DVDs coded Region 3. How many of those do you have?
Just where do you expect to get data on such names?
That's what I am trying to point out. You can't in most cases.
When I see most Asian languages on screen, it looks like chicken tracks to me. Can't read it unless somebody translates it to English, and there is no consistency in that at all!
That's why I am proposing that an accurate consistent database of Asian actors/actresses be created and it's not going to be by "putting down as credited". | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Then don't make changes just based on your opinion or preference that it should be that way, xradman. Like I said DOCUMENT, do not expect me support it if you just thorw it on the wall. And if you do that then you are not interested in accuracy, you are interested in your personal preference for how YOU think the data should appear. Skip Skip, I do not expect your support. You do not have the same concerns as I do since last time I checked, you do not have any meaningful collection of Asian DVDs. I am sure you would be singing a different tune if every one of actors in your collection had their names mispelled or backwards. Since we have an opportunity to separated "as credited" from the names in the main actor database, I thought it only logical that we should attempt to correct any gross errors (such as putting names backwards) before having to prove that our corrections are erroneous. In fact it would make more sense to me to have a small committee of regional experts scan through the database to make global corrections to their area of expertise, before giving rest of the community the opportunity to make changes. I really wish we could have one of these cast discussions without getting sidelined by Skip vs. rest arguments. You are wrong xradman. I understand your concerns and have said that evry time you bring it up. I have also said REPEATEDLY that if John Wayne were credited in an Asian Martial Arts Epic as Wayne John, I would not whine about it, I would expect to see him credited as Wayne John. Or if I were credited as NetSkip then...so be it. I have also told you repeatedly that each and every On Screen Credit is controlled by the Contract that is signed by the actor or crew person.<shrugs> None of this has changed, not has your making or taking the issue to a totally personal level. You are personally offended on a cultural level...oh well, what can I say. I am not PC nor will I ever be and I am proud of it. This is not about anything personal or cultural from my point of view, it is very simply about data. I have even told you that if I understand what Gerri has said you would list as Gong Li as master, with documentation hopefully, and Credited As Li Gong, btu you still want to argue.<shrugs> Documentation is key, you don't have to wade very far into IMDb before youy discover all the inaccuraccies that run ramapant through that database. Why? Becuaes thet do not force users to exercise anything rational relative their database, users put in whatever they feel like, sometimes even themselves (inaccurately). IF you REALLY interested in an accurate database, then some form of documentation is absolutely imperative, might that be difficult...yes, it very well could be. IF I can document Gong Li wonderful, I will list him as such, if I can't I will leave him as I see him on the screen. Not hard and goes right to the heart of data accuracy. Who knows, you being a native of the Asian Continent, may well know right where to lay your hands on some documentation that would support Gong Li, again I say wonderful, by all means do it. I don't understand what this is about, other than someone just wants to argue. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | That's it. I am not going to respond further to Skip regarding this matter. I would like to participate in cast and credit discussions, especially as it relates to non region 1 Asian DVDs, but not go through the same arguments over and over and over again. It seems everything has changed but then nothing has changed. | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Now everybody just calm down, good grief. You guys are a trip. Xradman, one big thing I have learned is NEVER try to paint yourself into a corner. And say this is the way it is. I can just about guarantee you that at some point we will uncover what you think is a Gong Li and we learn that he really IS Li Gong (just an example) and that is why I say if we are REALLY and TRULY interested in ACCURACY then documentation is the watchword. Anything else is pure speculation, opinion or preference. I think if you could step back from your taking offense you would see the rationality of the argument. I have said before I am not interested in culture, yours, mine or anyone else's, I am only interested in the data. There has to be some way to find some documentation  somewhere, xradman, even an interview that say "so, Mr. Li....." I am not against you. Every time I have siad this is the way it is, the next film I look at proves me wrong.<shrugs> | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I can just about guarantee you that at some point we will uncover what you think is a Gong Li and we learn that he really IS Li Gong (just an example) and that is why I say if we are REALLY and TRULY interested in ACCURACY then documentation is the watchword. Anything else is pure speculation, opinion or preference. I think if you could step back from your taking offense you would see the rationality of the argument. I have said before I am not interested in culture, yours, mine or anyone else's, I am only interested in the data. There has to be some way to find some documentation somewhere, xradman, even an interview that say "so, Mr. Li....." I am not against you.
Every time I have siad this is the way it is, the next film I look at proves me wrong.<shrugs> Alright, one last reply to Skip. You know Gong Li is a woman, don't you? A rather beautiful woman at that. | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 404 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Now everybody just calm down, good grief.
You guys are a trip.
Xradman, one big thing I have learned is NEVER try to paint yourself into a corner. And say this is the way it is. I can just about guarantee you that at some point we will uncover what you think is a Gong Li and we learn that he really IS Li Gong (just an example) and that is why I say if we are REALLY and TRULY interested in ACCURACY then documentation is the watchword. Anything else is pure speculation, opinion or preference. I think if you could step back from your taking offense you would see the rationality of the argument. I have said before I am not interested in culture, yours, mine or anyone else's, I am only interested in the data. There has to be some way to find some documentation somewhere, xradman, even an interview that say "so, Mr. Li....." I am not against you.
Every time I have siad this is the way it is, the next film I look at proves me wrong.<shrugs> Skip, just when I thought you were understanding what this was all about. Sorry xradman, I feel your pain.  | | | The Other DVD Forum
Why do people who know the least know it the loudest? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
Quote:
I can just about guarantee you that at some point we will uncover what you think is a Gong Li and we learn that he really IS Li Gong (just an example) and that is why I say if we are REALLY and TRULY interested in ACCURACY then documentation is the watchword. Anything else is pure speculation, opinion or preference. I think if you could step back from your taking offense you would see the rationality of the argument. I have said before I am not interested in culture, yours, mine or anyone else's, I am only interested in the data. There has to be some way to find some documentation somewhere, xradman, even an interview that say "so, Mr. Li....." I am not against you.
Every time I have siad this is the way it is, the next film I look at proves me wrong.<shrugs>
Alright, one last reply to Skip.
You know Gong Li is a woman, don't you? A rather beautiful woman at that. In fact, I do, but when I am typing an example it's not really relevant. I really am on your side, just want to find an answer. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Quoting skipnet50:
I will outline the standards that I use for documenting my own work
1) Actor(Crew) person's OWN website
2) Some reference source (NOT IMDb), though I might use them in anttempt to find more data
3)Screen Caps/Time Stamps
I use a minimum of two independent sources for any change to a name I might make. Do NOT just throw a change up on the wall and expect me to buy it because I won't. If you are interested in accuracy as some of you claim to be, then you understand this and wil agree.
Skip 
That's great that you are willing to document your changes, but I don't recall anyone putting you in charge. What you are proposing works for some known actors but not for 99% of actors in Asian cinema.
Then don't make changes just based on your opinion or preference that it should be that way, xradman. Like I said DOCUMENT, do not expect me support it if you just thorw it on the wall. And if you do that then you are not interested in accuracy, you are interested in your personal preference for how YOU think the data should appear.
Skip Once again, why do you care? The 'as credited' name should match the credits! For the common name it can be any of the versions as long as WE use the same one. Skip this is NOT 2.5, we are going forward to a MUCH better place. pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA | | | | Last edited: by pdf256 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote:
I have also said REPEATEDLY that if John Wayne were credited in an Asian Martial Arts Epic as Wayne John, I would not whine about it, I would expect to see him credited as Wayne John. Or if I were credited as NetSkip then...so be it. Under the old system, I can see where you would expect this. Under the new system, we no longer have to. The master name would be 'John Wayne' and the as credited name would be 'Wayne John'. Quote:
I have even told you that if I understand what Gerri has said you would list as Gong Li as master, with documentation hopefully, and Credited As Li Gong, btu you still want to argue.<shrugs> I could be wrong, but I think you just said the exact same thing that xradman proposed on the very first page.  Quote:
I don't understand what this is about, other than someone just wants to argue. I am with you there. It looks like you guys are now arguing for the sake of arguing. You both seem to have gotten to the same place but you just don't realize it yet. The issue, at least for me, comes down to figuring out what the master name is going to be for these actors. Not owning any R3 titles myself, I am going to stay out of that discussion...as best I can.  BUT, once that name is decided, and approved by Ken or Gerri, we need a way for that information to be made available to the masses. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 1,022 |
| | | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 810 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
...
The issue, at least for me, comes down to figuring out what the master name is going to be for these actors. Not owning any R3 titles myself, I am going to stay out of that discussion...as best I can. BUT, once that name is decided, and approved by Ken or Gerri, we need a way for that information to be made available to the masses. I don't own any R3 DVDs, but I have 167 R1 DVDs of films from Japan, Korea and China. This is something that I need for full linking of my DVDs. pdf | | | Paul Francis
San Juan Capistrano, CA, USA |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Under the old system, I can see where you would expect this. Under the new system, we no longer have to. The master name would be 'John Wayne' and the as credited name would be 'Wayne John'.> Correct, except under the current database, the master name is 'Wayne John' and the as credited name is 'Wayne John'. Quote:
I could be wrong, but I think you just said the exact same thing that xradman proposed on the very first page. > Correct, if that's what Skip is sayiing Quote:
I am with you there. It looks like you guys are now arguing for the sake of arguing. You both seem to have gotten to the same place but you just don't realize it yet.> Except Skip wants me to prove that 'Wayne John' is really 'John Wayne'. This can be done for well known actors but not for everyone. Quote:
The issue, at least for me, comes down to figuring out what the master name is going to be for these actors. Not owning any R3 titles myself, I am going to stay out of that discussion...as best I can. BUT, once that name is decided, and approved by Ken or Gerri, we need a way for that information to be made available to the masses. Same here. For R3 DVDs and Asian actors, if Gerri or Ken want, I and/or small committee of volunteer/fans could compile a list of master names for most common Asian actors/actress (~1000) and then handle additional cases on case by case basis. Then if Skip or anyone else finds that Gong Li is actually Goung Li and male with indisputable proof, we can correct it. | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | The only issue that needs to be decided here is what conventions do we use to determine the "Master Name".
"Credited As" will always be what's in the actual film credits
So can we discuss how we determine the "Master Name" field instead of the rest of this garbage!
And yes that includes how to handle Asian names in the "Master Name" field. Personally, I will give much greater weight to those who live or are from Region 3 on that specific issue! | | | | Hal |
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Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion |
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