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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dan W: Quote:
I think the best thing is to follow the rules: do not contribute any data from a third-party source. This leaves us with our personal knowledge and a few "official websites". If you know them, then enter what you know. Those you don't know, enter what is given and leave it for someone else to "complete". Agreed mostly! But aren't those few "official websites" also 3rd party sources? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 6,635 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote:
I think the only time I have seen cast not listed with their roles are TV series, and usually during the beginning credits. I can't recall a film where their are actors listed without the roles they played, but I guess there could be some. How many older films do you own? This is fairly common. Quote:
Or am I overreacting? Not really. BTW, we are not just talking about cast roles. No data is to be taken from third party data sources. I'm not sure where we're going to get release dates and SRP's from. Just to be clear, I am an avid supporter of taking any data available from the DVD, from the DVD. Problem is, all data is not available from the DVD, and we are getting so restrictive about where that data can be sourced, that many people will just stop contributing. If that's the goal, we're there! | | | | Hal |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 |  Posts: 1,242 |
| | Posted: | | | | Looks like that if third party sites are frowned upon Skip's going be getting a lot of PM's for data!  Steve |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Tracer: Quote:
I've notice on most of my TV collections that have the roles listed for the major characters listed right on the packaging. That is where I take mine if non are listed in the credits. Not on all packaging, and what about guest stars that are listed in the beginning credits and have no roles associated with them at all in the credits? |
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  | Berak | | Bibamus morieundum est! |
| Registered: May 10, 2007 |  Posts: 1,059 |
| | Posted: | | | | Are we allowed to use Wikipedia as a source? (don't bite my head of now guys - haven't read through the thread to see if it's been adressed before - gotta put the kids to bed...  ) | | | Berak
It's better to burn out than to fade away!
True love conquers all! |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Telecine: Quote:
What about books? If I quote a book as a source, how is that going to be received? There are fair dealing laws in Australia and most countries that permit the use of small amounts of copyrighted material for varous purposes. Do I have to comply with US Copyright law because the DB is hosted in the US? What if I quote from a book that is no longer protected by copyright? Books are of course also copyrighted 3rd party sources. Get me right. I'm not against using 3rd party sources in general. And using copyrighted 3rd party sources is legal for a lot of purposes. What you can't do is copy data from copyrighted sources (without a license). But you could use it for reference or you may even quote part of it under some circumstances. IMO it would be completely legal to enter the production year to the database pointing to the release dates on IMDb for reference. Similar would be true for country of origin. But then, I am not a lawyer. |
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| Registered: May 29, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 3,475 |
| | Posted: | | | | Isn't there an "official" site, the studio for example, that would provide that data? |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Rifter: Quote:
If you're looking for role names for actors, one of the best places is TCMDB.com. Turner Classic Movies is not affiliated with IMDB, and I have found their stuff to be dead on accurate - so far. Plus, Turner Broadcasting owns a huge chunk of the older films in existence, so they are often the only source for many of these older movies. Whenever possible, however, the best way to get the role name is to watch the movie/episodes in question and pick up the names that way. Use the database as a backup. From a copyright point of view, using TCMDB is not different to using IMDb. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | If Invelos is going to ban the entire use of "3rd Party Sites/sources" then I see a future where there will be fewer and fewer contributions.
It's virtually impossible to only base profiles only on the DVD. What about release dates for upcoming DVDs, SRP, uncredited cast/crew, artwork for upcoming DVDs and other such info?
If we was to only base info on the DVD, then in all reality there should be no profiles for upcoming DVDs. Since all info for these upcoming DVDs are from 3rd party sites. The only time that a DVD would be able to be entered is on release date when someone actually owns the DVD and is able to do the profile based only on info from the DVD itself. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Patsa: Quote:
I never use IMDb data, but I often copy cast and crew data from other regions to my locality. Am I now required to verify data that has already been accepted in the database? I think I'll just stop contributing cast and crew entirely and keep it locked and local...  I would make a difference between adding credits from a profile to an empty credit list and trying to correct existing credits with those from another profile. Who could be against the first (when documented properly), but I would not like to see the second without verification against the disc. |
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| Registered: March 15, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 5,459 |
| | Posted: | | | | I think people are confusing 3rd party databases and 3rd party sources. There's nothing wrong with using a 3rd party source for your information that's not on the DVD, as long as it's reliable and you document it. What is not allowed is using a 3rd party database, IMDB is a database (that's what the DB stands for), as is TCMDB. Official sites for TV series/films and shop sites are not databases so are allowed. Whether Wikipedia is an online database or encyclopedia is another debate... | | | | Last edited: by northbloke |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 13,203 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting CubbyUps: Quote:
Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
I've notice on most of my TV collections that have the roles listed for the major characters listed right on the packaging. That is where I take mine if non are listed in the credits.
Not on all packaging, and what about guest stars that are listed in the beginning credits and have no roles associated with them at all in the credits? There is an exception for this situation in the rules: "If an actor is credited by name but does not have an associated role, you may use another source to identify the role." I don't see the problem here either.  | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
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| Registered: March 18, 2007 | | Posts: 150 |
| | Posted: | | | | Hi Ken
Would it be possible to post an update to the rules covering what has been discussed here?
My reasoning being I don't really think it's fair for any new contributors to trawl through 1000's of posts just to get the annexes to the rules.
Thanks in advance
Ritch | | | | Learning is not mandatory, but then neither is survival. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Berak: Quote:
Are we allowed to use Wikipedia as a source? (don't bite my head of now guys - haven't read through the thread to see if it's been adressed before - gotta put the kids to bed... ) From a copyright point of you, probably. While Wikipedia is of course a 3rd party copyrighted source, they grant a lot of right to their customers using their data. From a rules point of view all credits except uncredited cast have to come from the DVD. For uncredited cast and some other info like production year and country of origin, Wikipedia may be a valid data source. And IMO Wikipedia is not worse than every other 3rd party data source when it gets to accuracy. For a user based database it is surprisingly accuracte. |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 4,245 |
| | Posted: | | | | It also would be a good idea to include in the rules what sites not to use info from. |
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| Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 2,759 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting northbloke: Quote:
I think people are confusing 3rd party databases and 3rd party sources. There's nothing wrong with using a 3rd party source for your information that's not on the DVD, as long as it's reliable and you document it.
What is not allowed is using a 3rd party database, IMDB is a database (that's what the DB stands for), as is TCMDB.
Official sites for TV series/films and shop sites are not databases so are allowed.
Whether Wikipedia is an online database or encyclopedia is another debate... What's the difference between a data source and a data base? Your comment about Wikipedia goes into the correct direction. Every collection of data is a technically database. You do not even need to use software for a database. |
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