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Global Warming
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DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorTheMadMartian
Alien with an attitude
Registered: March 13, 2007
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I have the answer for global warming. It is a proven method that has worked many, many times in the past.  Get a volcano to erupt. 
No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDariusKyrak
Fishcakes.. and why not?
Registered: March 23, 2007
United Kingdom Posts: 317
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Quoting Unicus69:
Quote:
I have the answer for global warming. It is a proven method that has worked many, many times in the past.  Get a volcano to erupt. 


I know you're not being serious, but that can both lead to climactic cooling _AND_ heating. Eruption debris blocks out the sun and cools the Earth, and the huge CO2 emission is a major greenhouse gas. Which factor becomes dominant is dependent upon the size of the eruption, but will usually be period of severe winters followed by global heating.

Stuart
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
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If I understand the science correctly, the ash from volcanic eruptions was a major contributor to the last ice age, however it was the heat from the continued eruptions that also eventually thawed us out!
I believe the biggest worry for scientists now is that we are now creating our own "ash clouds" with increased CO2 emissions and if this does cause another ice age, there simply isn't enough volcanic activity these days to thaw us out again.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorwhispering
On ne passe pas!
Registered: March 13, 2007
Finland Posts: 1,380
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We now have as crappy weather as Britain has, rain, rain, rain, slush, rain, rain, rain ... ~10 years ago it would have been -5°C to -15°C at this time of year, now its +5°C to 0°C.
 Last edited: by whispering
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorDarxon
Vescere bracis meis
Registered: March 14, 2007
Germany Posts: 742
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Same in Germany, in my area I can still remember times in Dec. til Feb. I had to walk trough snow on my way to school for weeklong stretches. Nowadays I don't even bother to buy a set of winter tires for my car no more, because it's only snowing hard enough to cause trouble for maybe two or three days in the winter time, and then the snow won't even last long enough to trouble you on both ways, to work and back home.
Lutz
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRico
Strike Three
Registered: April 8, 2007
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Hi Guys,

Did someone say 'Collateral Damage' Just Kidding!

Regarding GW:

JP_S -
Quote:
Okay I think we should be somewhere inbetween "stop cutting down trees and stop using fossil fuels" and "it's nature and it will happen from time to time".


Keep in mind most trees are farmed & any good farmer need to insure a constant supply of what he/she sells. Large forest companies have practice 'sustained' harvest.

Keep in mind MAN is part of nature, and sot separate from. Also the globe will cool & chill as its done for eons. Man can only accelerate the current mode natures (heating/cooling) in. Currently the globe is heating, and man can only help speed the process, by our action.

Economic constraints (rising costs) will cause change in usage & spur technological advances. Example

Cheap gas we made large un-economical SUV's trucks etc & more pollution. As gas prices rose, we drove are SUV's less & looked for more fuel efficient cars. Smaller more full efficient cars less pollution. Less pollution less 'green house gas emissions' etc.

Skip - well said, your post containing 'Bill Cosby' you got a good star! Sea floor spreading is the prime mover pushing the continents around. In a few years the continents will bump into one another again, Pangea II.

Unicus69 - Altamont Pass windmills are idle? Granted birds are a problem. Just think how much devastation would occur if the greenies were no existent. The environmentalist are a necessary counter balance.

Take Care
Rico
If I felt any better I'd be sick!
Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantZoeper
Registered: 10/03/2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
Austria Posts: 460
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I can tread water. I am a scuba diver and I practice at every week with treading water, but that won't ever be long enough
Where I live I am about 5 meters (about 16 feet) under sea level.
But my girlfriend is Austrian, so I'll drive to my in-laws, they would have room for us. Or at least for her and I hope they'll like me enough for me to stay as well
I read a article in a Time like magazine in NED about the killing of (sea) birds in Norway or something. We do have a few wind mills but never enough to supply the whole country. And the enviromentalist who don't want us to use fossil fuels probably are only happy when we will use stone tables to communicate
That'll take us back to the stone age... literally

DAMN HIPPIES

@Rico
That was kinda the point I was making. Men is an accelerator, but mostly this happened decades ago, maybe even at the turn of the century, and I don't mean the last one, around the 1900's.
Offcourse we can start driving fuel efficioent cars, except they won't get you anywhere. And if they do it will take a million years. I am not driving a SUV or something but I drive something between a Volkswagen Passat and an Audi A3. I want to drive comfortable, quick, but also safely. If the car companies would make more attractive hybrids I might have thought about is. But did you know that Toyota Prius is less fuel efficient then some diesels.
Jean-Paul
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantpauls42
Reg: 31/01/2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting JP_S:
Quote:


@Rico
That was kinda the point I was making. Men is an accelerator, but mostly this happened decades ago, maybe even at the turn of the century, and I don't mean the last one, around the 1900's.


Do you have any evidence for this? And if it were true - so what? Does that mean that we don't try and stop it?

Quoting JP_S:
Quote:

Offcourse we can start driving fuel efficioent cars, except they won't get you anywhere. And if they do it will take a million years.


Please give the information that you used as the source of this. I want the name of the publication and the name of the scientists that checked the work.

I want to be able to write to the car manufactures and ask why their cars drive so slowly.
Paul
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantZoeper
Registered: 10/03/2003
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Quoting pauls42:
Quote:
Do you have any evidence for this? And if it were true - so what? Does that mean that we don't try and stop it?


No Paul I don't.
I didn't know I had to have evidence to make a point.
Let me put it differently, I think, so that is just my opinion, the West; mostly the Americas and Europe; made a lot more of CO2 emmissions during our so called 'Golden Age' then nowadays. We tend to watch more on what is being dumped into the air. I think, so again in my opinion, we probably outputed more green house gasses in a few years back then, then possibly now in two times so many years. Just because then we had a lot of heavy and poluting industries. Now, in most parts of the world, these companies have watch what they are outputting, otherwise they'll get fined by the country they're based in, or by the EU?

Okay so I proved myself wrong

Global carbon dioxide emissions from burning fossil fuels
round the 1900 lets say 2.5billion tons compared to 25billion tons where the world population was around 1.7billion around the 1900's and almost 6billion now. You must be very happy
But what was your point?

Quoting pauls42:
Quote:
Please give the information that you used as the source of this. I want the name of the publication and the name of the scientists that checked the work.

Well TopGear did a test with the Prius, not the best test obviously being Top Gear, but anyway. I want to call this `exhibit A`
0-60mph (0-100km/h) 13.5sec with a top speed of almost 100mph (160km/h)
Jeremy drove from his house to London (appr 70mp (113km)) in the Prius and this was 45mpg (20km/l) "A normal diesel will do better than that. A lot better" And he drove the same route in a okay okay Volkswagen Lupo diesel doing 75mpg (32km/l).

So everything for the Tasmanian Fruitbat eh
Jean-Paul
 Last edited: by Zoeper
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantTHEMADCHEF
Registered: May 23, 2007
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it does not matter what the "truth" is, the trurth is that pollution kills everything.
we are the only animal that kills everything, we are a virus.
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile RegistrantStar ContributorBad Father
Registered: July 23, 2001
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Is it getting warm in here? Must be that global warming thing
My WebGenDVD online Collection
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Gotta love that Global Warming thing. Minus 3, wind chill Minus 20, at game time for Green Bay Packers vs. New York Giants. The Ice Bowl Redux....gotta love it.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Desktop and Mobile Registrantpauls42
Reg: 31/01/2003
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Quoting JP_S:
Quote:
Quoting pauls42:
Quote:
Do you have any evidence for this? And if it were true - so what? Does that mean that we don't try and stop it?


No Paul I don't.
I didn't know I had to have evidence to make a point.
Okay so I proved myself wrong

Global carbon dioxide emissions from burning fossil fuels
round the 1900 lets say 2.5billion tons compared to 25billion tons where the world population was around 1.7billion around the 1900's and almost 6billion now. You must be very happy
But what was your point?


My points were
a) your comment came over as something which was factual. And I didn't believe it. And I wanted to know if you did have some facts which you were quoting or if you weren't.
b) and secondly I was suggesting that it was immaterial when it started since we should be trying to slow it down anyhow.
c) and thirdly you can't easily make a point with made up facts. 

Quoting JP_S:
Quote:


Well TopGear did a test with the Prius, not the best test obviously being Top Gear, but anyway. I want to call this `exhibit A`
0-60mph (0-100km/h) 13.5sec with a top speed of almost 100mph (160km/h)
Jeremy drove from his house to London (appr 70mp (113km)) in the Prius and this was 45mpg (20km/l) "A normal diesel will do better than that. A lot better" And he drove the same route in a okay okay Volkswagen Lupo diesel doing 75mpg (32km/l).

So everything for the Tasmanian Fruitbat eh


Yes, but, it didn't take a million years. Which was the point I was trying to make.

Global warming is a serious subject and we need to be careful about what 'facts' we state since these could end up being taken as gospel unless challenged.
Paul
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
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Pauls:

My point is we look at the problem at figure out to survive it, assuming it is not merely a cyclical blip. Have you ever heard of unintended consequences. The planet is bigger than we are and its history proves that it is very capable of dealing with its own problems. ANY fix we might try to apply might wind up, and likely will, with a cure that is worse than the disease. Collectively we have a gigantic ego if we actually believe we can do anything. Madchef called us a virus, a very apt analogy. Go out in space and how big a telescope ( or perhaps micoscope) would it take to be able pick YOU out of the masses.

In view of all the eveidence I have seen thus far, I will acknowledge that man has had some impact oin this issue, but the overall impact appears to be negligible, there appear to me to be other forces at work in addition to our own. The most likely suspect would be some sort of cyclical increase of solar energy output, since all of the planets appear to be undergoing a very similar warming cycle at the present time and I hardly think we are to blame for that.

Survival should be our primary objective, if that means move away from the shorline then so be it , and those that won't better listen to Bill Cosby. How long can you tread water?

Noah.....!!!!!

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantFUBAR
It's Gonna Work
Registered: March 21, 2007
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I don't understand the need for treating this issue as though it is of no importance.

To Skip:  How many scientists think the sun is warming all the planets?  Very, very few I would suspect.

To all others commenting in a trivializing manner: Why?
Graham
DVD Profiler Unlimited Registrantnolesrule
Registered: 09/21/2000
Registered: March 15, 2007
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Quoting FUBAR:
Quote:
To Skip:  How many scientists think the sun is warming all the planets?  Very, very few I would suspect.


How many scientists actually study the climate of other planets?

It doesn't take much effort to actually determine the surface temperatures of other planets and theenergy output of the central star in our solar system, however, only certain specialists actually track and study that data. Climatologists and meteorologists do not look beyond our own atmosphere for their data.

Solar output is a hugely important variable that seems to be overlooked all too often.

Certainly we should be mitigating our impact on the planet, but that's just common sense.

And Skip makes a good point regarding taking drastic measures that may have unintended consequences. A good example is our wodnerful hybrid vehicles. Sure, they improve fuel efficiency somewhat, but when you take into account the environmental impact of the manufacturing and disposal of the battery systems used in the hybrids, it has much more of an impact than a standard gasoline-powered vehicle.
 Last edited: by nolesrule
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