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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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Why Liberals Just Lovve Obama |
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Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | While that is important information, Snark. It is basically irrelevant,the only thing that would add to the discussion is the out-of-pocket value of the collection. It does not change that the person has made a CHOICE to own a substantial collection of DVDs, while moaning about not having health care, I think her employer is a jerk for not making it available (if the person is full-time), but it does not change that private health insurance can procurred, and for that purpose I would support McCain's proposed Tax Credit (I think). But as it stands now the person's priorities are misplaced choosing DVD ownership over insurance. That doesn't bother me in and of itself but then to expect taxpayers tyo support the irresponsibility by expecting them to provide her "free" health care is beyond the pale. I already pay in excess of $20,000/per year to state and federal taxes...stay out of my pocket. I am not interested in any prposed social engineering on the part of the US Government and as I have noted there is no single case on the planet that has succeeded with the idea of socialized medicine, nor am I willing to permit some moronic bureaucrat somewhere to hold sway over my healthcare.
We are now seeing the results of the experiment of socially engineering homeownership. NOBODY has a RIGHT to own a home, you have the OPPORTUNITY and it is hard work.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| Registered: June 3, 2007 | Posts: 333 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote: While that is important information, Snark. It is basically irrelevant,the only thing that would add to the discussion is the out-of-pocket value of the collection. It does not change that the person has made a CHOICE to own a substantial collection of DVDs, while moaning about not having health care, I think her employer is a jerk for not making it available (if the person is full-time), but it does not change that private health insurance can procurred, and for that purpose I would support McCain's proposed Tax Credit (I think). But as it stands now the person's priorities are misplaced choosing DVD ownership over insurance. That doesn't bother me in and of itself but then to expect taxpayers tyo support the irresponsibility by expecting them to provide her "free" health care is beyond the pale. I already pay in excess of $20,000/per year to state and federal taxes...stay out of my pocket. I am not interested in any prposed social engineering on the part of the US Government and as I have noted there is no single case on the planet that has succeeded with the idea of socialized medicine, nor am I willing to permit some moronic bureaucrat somewhere to hold sway over my healthcare.
We are now seeing the results of the experiment of socially engineering homeownership. NOBODY has a RIGHT to own a home, you have the OPPORTUNITY and it is hard work.
Skip Well Skip, I could help but notice that you felt your 15K estmate "added something" to the discussion. I was just pointing out how much it added. (I.E. Diddly squat) Health insurance can be extemely expensive. If 15K were spent over a year, yeah, that would cover insurance for the year. If 1K is spent in a year it's not enough to get in the door so its not an option. Period. The bottom line is that you don't know enough to be making any sort of judgement in this case. I think the assumptions you're willing to make to justify your opinion really says a lot more about you then her. I agree with some of what you say (Not a lot, but I do see your point) but there's no cause to be taking it out on a user here when you don't know the particulars of her situation. Save your anger for the politicians and let your voice be heard where it counts. In the voting booth. No matter how it goes it won't make much of a difference to your pocket book, but it's thereputic to vote. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | SnarK You have bo idea how loud my voice is or where it is heard. I will however, say that i do live in the DC area and i am not unknown in the Halls of Congress. Don't presume that to mean I am a pol, i am not, just very loud and very well known down there. BTW I was not slamming any user, just the premise based on the comments that were made, which were factually fair game. However the SS operatives that we have around here are another story entirely. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video | | | Last edited: by Winston Smith |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting hal9g: Quote:
At no time have I called you a liar!
Unless you yourself were told this by a lending institution, then you did not "see it with your own eyes". I believe you were told this by your sister-in-law. You just did it again. When I said I saw it with my own eyes, that is exactly what I meant. The fact that you believe otherwise, seeing as you have nothing to base that belief on other than pure speculation, indicates that you believe I have lied. Quote: Twist the stats any way you like. A reasonable person would conclude that a large percentage do not attempt to contact their lenders to work something out. I did not twist the facts at all. I took them to mean exactly what they said. You are the one who twisted them to mean what you wanted them to mean. If you believe that to be reasonable, you don't know what that word means. Quote: I have been unable to find a source on the illegals, but I will keep looking. Not that this is a significant part of the problem, but it did contribute. Then why bring it up? | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,394 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Snark: Quote: Quoting Astrakan:
Quote: Quoting kdh1949:
Quote: The user's profile shows 1,166 DVDs. That is not an assumption on my part. Clearly this user CHOOSES to spend money on DVDs and not on health insurance. That is not an assumption on my part. To be fair, we have no idea how that user came into posession of those movies. It's reasonable to assume she bought them, but that doesn't make it any less of an assumption.
KM
Or what period of time they were purchased over... or what prices might have been paid... New or used?
Etc etc... I will concede to you on the DVD collection issue. However, that does not diminish the fact that the user has CHOSEN to work for an employer who does not provide health insurance. It is not MY responsibility to pay for health insurance (through taxes) for someone who is unwilling to find a job that DOES provide such insurance. Public funding for health insurance may be appropriate for individuals in the society who are truly unable to obtain it on their own. In this group are children and adults who are not competent to provide it for themselves. If someone truly cannot find employment where health insurance is provided, that is one thing. It is quite another thing if that person chooses to work where coverage isn't provided. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole) Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges. DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Posts: 21,610 |
| Posted: | | | | I agree with you in porinciple. Each case stands on its own merits and there are people who, through no fault of their own, cannot take care of themselves, but this is a very small percentage of the total.Those who won't through laziness or choice are not entitled, we have far too much entitlement NOW. We have created a society which wants the government to take of us, I don't want to deal with MY hjealthcare..Gimme...I am poor, I don't have enough to buy a house....Gimme, I have to have a car...Gimme, I want, I want, I want. Not on my bak you won't. You(generic) have forced me to swallow $700 Billiuon, which MAY be profitable or it may not be, it has been crammed down my throat and i am choking on it. NO MORE, providefor yourself and read the US Constitution, there is NO CONSTITUTIONAL provison which provides for MOST of what Congress does, including this Rescue (which is unconstitutional absolutely) BUT we have little choice.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!! CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it. Outta here
Billy Video |
| Registered: June 3, 2007 | Posts: 333 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote: I will concede to you on the DVD collection issue.
However, that does not diminish the fact that the user has CHOSEN to work for an employer who does not provide health insurance. It is not MY responsibility to pay for health insurance (through taxes) for someone who is unwilling to find a job that DOES provide such insurance. Public funding for health insurance may be appropriate for individuals in the society who are truly unable to obtain it on their own. In this group are children and adults who are not competent to provide it for themselves. If someone truly cannot find employment where health insurance is provided, that is one thing. It is quite another thing if that person chooses to work where coverage isn't provided. I am not sure that the job constitutes a choice in this economy. If I lost my job right now I couldn't hold out for a job with bennies if one without was offered. I need the paycheck. Bennies are only one part of the total comphensation from a job. A lot plays into it. There's the actual paycheck, the costs associated with the job (gas, clothes, etc), flexibility in terms of dealing with family (I'm a single parent. That's a biggie for me.), the opportunities it might lead to and even job satisfaction. I've never actually lovved a job so I can't imagine what that would be like. It might outweigh insurance just for the novelty of it. She said that she's planning on getting a job with bennies so I certainly wouldn't fault her for the current situation without more information. In any case, I'll save my scorn for the people who created the system, not those living in it. |
| Registered: June 3, 2007 | Posts: 333 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote: I agree with you in porinciple. Each case stands on its own merits and there are people who, through no fault of their own, cannot take care of themselves, but this is a very small percentage of the total.Those who won't through laziness or choice are not entitled, we have far too much entitlement NOW. We have created a society which wants the government to take of us, I don't want to deal with MY hjealthcare..Gimme...I am poor, I don't have enough to buy a house....Gimme, I have to have a car...Gimme, I want, I want, I want. Not on my bak you won't. You(generic) have forced me to swallow $700 Billiuon, which MAY be profitable or it may not be, it has been crammed down my throat and i am choking on it. NO MORE, providefor yourself and read the US Constitution, there is NO CONSTITUTIONAL provison which provides for MOST of what Congress does, including this Rescue (which is unconstitutional absolutely) BUT we have little choice.
Skip Er... Article one, section eight Skip. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; You can try interpreting it as narrowly as you want (squinting helps here) but I think it's reasonable to assume that the credit market collapsing is contrary to the general welfare of the US. It's debatable as to whether it's wise or will work, but it is constitutional. |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 2,394 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Snark: Quote: She said that she's planning on getting a job with bennies so I certainly wouldn't fault her for the current situation without more information. In any case, I'll save my scorn for the people who created the system, not those living in it. I may have misinterpreted everything that she said, but at one point it sounded to me that she would prefer not to have to get a different job to get the bennies. That I can certainly understand, but it should not fall upon the government to provide bennies for people who want to do things that don't pay enough to provide them with those bennies. If someone is independently wealthy, he/she can take whatever job he/she wants. Most of the rest of us have to make sacrifices, though. While I am willing to give a helping hand to the people in the society who cannot provide for themselves, I am not willing to do so for the people who don't help themselves first. | | | Another Ken (not Ken Cole) Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges. I don't have to show you any stinking badges. DVD Profiler user since June 15, 2001 |
| Registered: June 3, 2007 | Posts: 333 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting kdh1949: Quote: I may have misinterpreted everything that she said, but at one point it sounded to me that she would prefer not to have to get a different job to get the bennies. That I can certainly understand, but it should not fall upon the government to provide bennies for people who want to do things that don't pay enough to provide them with those bennies. If someone is independently wealthy, he/she can take whatever job he/she wants. Most of the rest of us have to make sacrifices, though. While I am willing to give a helping hand to the people in the society who cannot provide for themselves, I am not willing to do so for the people who don't help themselves first. I agree. I am not thrilled with the idea of paying for those who choose not to work. But the reality is that we've got unemployment. While that's the case even if an individual moves to a job with bennies, that slot will be filled by someone else without bennies. The basic equation as a taxpayer doesn't change. I don't even want to imagine what the unexployment rate would be if we counted only those jobs that offered health care. At least she's working and bringing home a paycheck. That's something that many willing folks are unable to do right now. I'm not saying it's fair, but medical care for the employed without insurance is a reletively small slice of the problem right now and it's not the most outrageous one by a long shot. |
| Registered: April 8, 2007 | Posts: 1,057 |
| Posted: | | | | Hi Guys, Snark - Gold star to you Let's divide everyone into one of two camps right & left. Each group, makes a list & listing what. government should spend tax dollars on. Not the amount of dollars just categories, with approval for spending. Compare lists. Set aside the agreed upon, & compromise on whats not on the others list. It's in the best interests of government, to supply a safety net for the masses, which it does, & provides health care. With a government safety net, people can recover, from the lumps life troughs at us all. The person temporarily, hitting the rough patch, now recovered prospers & pays taxes. Win Win. Take Care Rico | | | If I felt any better I'd be sick! Envy is mental theft. If you covet another mans possessions, then you should be willing to take on his responsibilities, heartaches, and troubles, along with his money. D. Koontz |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Posts: 374 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote: However the SS operatives that we have around here are another story entirely. Skip Another completely out of the line comment and completely uncalled for. Bringing a tone into the forums that is absolutely unnecessary. | | | Last edited: by sugarjoe |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Posts: 374 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting skipnet50: Quote: I am not interested in any prposed social engineering on the part of the US Government and as I have noted there is no single case on the planet that has succeeded with the idea of socialized medicine, nor am I willing to permit some moronic bureaucrat somewhere to hold sway over my healthcare. Skip Another totally unfounded statement. Another user had already pointed out which countries have the best health system according to the WHO. It looks like the top of them almost all have a public health care system. Others might say that having a public health care system is an achievement of civilized countries. |
| Registered: March 15, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 5,459 |
| Posted: | | | | I would just ignore him Joe, he's obviously just ranting away to himself, with no desire or inclination to actually discuss things.
However you are quite right that that comment (I won't even repeat it) was completely uncalled for and have used the reputation system accordingly. |
| Registered: June 3, 2007 | Posts: 333 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Rico: Quote: Hi Guys,
Snark - Gold star to you
Let's divide everyone into one of two camps right & left. Each group, makes a list & listing what. government should spend tax dollars on. Not the amount of dollars just categories, with approval for spending. Compare lists. Set aside the agreed upon, & compromise on whats not on the others list. It's in the best interests of government, to supply a safety net for the masses, which it does, & provides health care. With a government safety net, people can recover, from the lumps life troughs at us all. The person temporarily, hitting the rough patch, now recovered prospers & pays taxes. Win Win.
Take Care Rico Thanks Rico! But what about those of us who loathe both camps? The right and the left are both ethically and intellectiually bankrupt. But on different issues :-) Just ONCE in my life I'd like to vote FOR someone instead of the person who will cause the least damage... Doesn't seem likely though |
| Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation: | Posts: 13,202 |
| Posted: | | | | Quoting Snark: Quote: Thanks Rico!
But what about those of us who loathe both camps?
The right and the left are both ethically and intellectiually bankrupt. But on different issues :-)
Just ONCE in my life I'd like to vote FOR someone instead of the person who will cause the least damage...
Doesn't seem likely though Smartest thing I have read all day. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand. The Centauri learned this lesson once. We will teach it to them again. Though it take a thousand years, we will be free. - Citizen G'Kar |
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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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