Referring to this thread and http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=37108 this thread. (using two links in one post seems not to work !?)

There's some discussion about two actors that I would like an opinion about. I have been using Goodguy's Name Variants report to find similar names in my local database, and I've been updating my profiles and selecting common names to properly link DVDs that have the same actors with different 'credited as' names. For two actors there's now some debate as to which common name would be the proper one.

1) Real name: Robert Zajonc. Credited as: Robert 'Bobby Z' Zajonc, Bobby Z, Robert M. Zajonc, Robert Zajonc and many other variants. IMDB name: Robert 'Bobby Z' Zajonc. In IMDB most often credited as: Robert 'Bobby Z' Zajonc or uncredited.

2) Real name: undetermined. Credited as: Dona Hardy, Donna Hardy. IMDB name: Donna Hardy. In IMDB most credited as Dona Hardy (26 of 48). Other sources, i.e. tv.com, also have more credits for Dona than for Donna.

For both actors I've used IMDB as source to determine the common name, according to the two threads mentioned at the top of this post. However, my contribution has now been challenged because of two reasons. 1) Robert Zajonc is the actor's real name, so that should be the one used as common name and 2) Dona Hardy is more often credited as Donna Hardy and therefor should be used as common name.

So, what to do now ?

For each:

Choose one. Use whatever reason appeals to you.

Then, if the majority (and/or Gerri) determines your choice was incorrect, another possibility will most likely be chosen for all of us.

Simple.

But Tim, aren't you just as guilty of using third-party sites - that are not in no way official - for this information? Who has determined the validity?

Quoting Italo Disco:

Quote:
Referring to this thread and http://www.invelos.com/Forums.aspx?task=viewtopic&topicID=37108 this thread. (using two links in one post seems not to work !?)

There's some discussion about two actors that I would like an opinion about. I have been using Goodguy's Name Variants report to find similar names in my local database, and I've been updating my profiles and selecting common names to properly link DVDs that have the same actors with different 'credited as' names. For two actors there's now some debate as to which common name would be the proper one.

1) Real name: Robert Zajonc. Credited as: Robert 'Bobby Z' Zajonc, Bobby Z, Robert M. Zajonc, Robert Zajonc and many other variants. IMDB name: Robert 'Bobby Z' Zajonc. In IMDB most often credited as: Robert 'Bobby Z' Zajonc or uncredited.

2) Real name: undetermined. Credited as: Dona Hardy, Donna Hardy. IMDB name: Donna Hardy. In IMDB most credited as Dona Hardy (26 of 48). Other sources, i.e. tv.com, also have more credits for Dona than for Donna.

For both actors I've used IMDB as source to determine the common name, according to the two threads mentioned at the top of this post. However, my contribution has now been challenged because of two reasons. 1) Robert Zajonc is the actor's real name, so that should be the one used as common name and 2) Dona Hardy is more often credited as Donna Hardy and therefor should be used as common name.

So, what to do now ?

Italo:

How do YOU know that Dona Hardy=Donna Hardy, same is true of all the possibilities for Zajonc. Have you done anything such as comparative screen caps to be certain that you are not dealing with different people using similar names. I suspect you have not. Tim, you have even told me that you aren't willing to go to the trouble of doing screen caps for comparison, do it right or not at all. I want accurate links, good enough is NOT good enough. And as Kevin noted we do not use third party sites, and if you wnat to do that you had better provide more than one.

Skip

Quoting Italo Disco:

Quote:
1) Real name: Robert Zajonc. Credited as: Robert 'Bobby Z' Zajonc, Bobby Z, Robert M. Zajonc, Robert Zajonc and many other variants. IMDB name: Robert 'Bobby Z' Zajonc. In IMDB most often credited as: Robert 'Bobby Z' Zajonc or uncredited.

As for this one, Robert 'Bobby Z' Zajonc really strikes me as an IMDb-name - even if it's only based on the fact that they tend to use single quotation marks for the nickname, while film credits mostly would use double quotation marks (i.e. "Bobby Z" instead of 'Bobby Z'). This is again just a gut feeling: we all agree that Robert Zajonc is his real name, and that he is sometimes credited with a nickname. Way back in all the "common name" debates, someone once proposed to leave all nicknames out of "common names" - and I saw the merit in that. Simply because such a person is bound to be credited both with and without the nickname from time to time. Rather than having do decide for each actor/crew member whether his common name should include that nickname, which seems rather cumbersome, I see great merits in a general decision not to use nicknames in "common names" at all. If we could agree on that, that would solve a large number of debates in advance.

In my own collection, I have only one acting credit for him, and that is in 'The Cable Guy', in which he is simply credited as Robert Zajonc. So that's what I entered into the profile - I entered his name simply "as credited" on-screen. If we can't agree about leaving nicknames out generally, and if he's actually mostly credited as Robert 'Bobby Z' Zajonc, I'm perfectly willing to accept that. But are we sure about the single quotation marks? There really do ring IMDb to me...

Quoting Italo Disco:

Quote:

1) Robert Zajonc is the actor's real name, so that should be the one used as common name and
2) Dona Hardy is more often credited as Donna Hardy and therefor should be used as common name.

So, what to do now ?

1) Not really, I would still go with what he is most commonly credited as name. Real names only work if all contributors know the persons real name.  If you can not determine a commonly credited as name, then I wouldn't make an online common name contribution as it most likely will change when Ken comes out with his tool to look at an actors most commonly credited as name in the DVD Profiler DB.

2) If Dona Hardy is the most commonly credited as name that is what I would use.  IMDB has it's own formula for what they use for the common name and it has nothing to do with most commonly credited as name.

Before making any common name contribution, I would verify the profile against the cast and crew credits.  Many times I've seen a profile that has someone like Donna Hardy but, the credits actually show Dona Hardy.  In these cases most likely the original contributor took the data from a third party data base instead of using the credits.

Italo:

As I outlined, you have to determiene hat Dona Hardy and Donna Hardy are the same person, NOT just two people with a similar names. It sems the best way to do that is via doing a comparative Screen Cap. Now once you have done something along those lines, you can think bout a link, as I have said many many times, while I MIGHT USE imdB AS one REFERENCE piece, I will NEVER use them as my sole source reference source, if they are the only source I can locate, then there is no source. After two years of editing Profiles I have learned that IMDb is the single most inaccurate source of information that there is, followed closely by Wikipedia. Ideally the person has his/her own website, which may prove useful and might even eliminate the nedd for screen shots...but that not going to be generally true.

Skip

Quoting skipnet50:

Quote:

Italo:

How do YOU know that Dona Hardy=Donna Hardy, same is true of all the possibilities for Zajonc. Have you done anything such as comparative screen caps to be certain that you are not dealing with different people using similar names. I suspect you have not. Tim, you have even told me that you aren't willing to go to the trouble of doing screen caps for comparison, do it right or not at all. I want accurate links, good enough is NOT good enough. And as Kevin noted we do not use third party sites, and if you wnat to do that you had better provide more than one.

Skip

It seems to me that an "official" filmography can be used to establish that they are the same person, without having to do screen captures.