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Invelos Forums->General: General Discussion |
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How do other programs handle cast and crew credits? |
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| Registered: March 14, 2007 |  Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | "As credited" is how we do it in DVD Profiler. I don't see the benefit of this system other than it was designed to minimize pingpong. However, the convoluted parsing and linking system has IMO created a completely insurmountable problem of proper cast and crew linking. Even if I were to completely crosslink every name in my own private database, anytime I download a new profile, it destroys that crosslink. I'm sure this isn't the first time this problem has come up. I would like to know how various programs and database out there handle cast and crew. I am somewhat familiar with late DVDSpot and HKMDB (Hong Kong Movie Database).
DVDSpot
All cast and crew had to be selected from a drop down list. If there was someone who wasn't in the database, you had to request that that person be added. The addition was then approved by a moderator who would add it to the master name database. Master name was taken either from the requested form or created by the moderator. There was no "as credited" field.
Pros: everything cross-linked
Cons: cast list was often not complete
HKMDB.com
All cast and crew names were taken from a master name list (with roman numerals for duplicate names) with no "as credited" feature. Cast and crew lists were added and modified by approved members only with moderator having the final authority. Disputes were handled with screenshots of actors from the movie to determine whether they were "uncredited".
Pros: everything cross-linked
Cons: limited cast and crew list for many movies
I would like to hear from others who are familiar with how other programs and databases handle cast and crew to chime in. | | | | My Home Theater | | | | Last edited: by xradman |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | Reputation:  |  Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | I can't provide details for other programs but could you clarify something for me - Quoting xradman: Quote:
DVDSpot
All cast and crew had to be selected from a drop down list. If there was someone who wasn't in the database, you had to request that that person be added. The addition was then approved by a moderator who would add it to the master name database. Master name was taken either from the requested form or created by the moderator. There was no "as credited" field.
Pros: everything cross-linked
Cons: cast list was often not complete
Does that mean that for actors who have been known under more than one name, ie Dwayne Johnson, they are only listed under one name for all of their films? |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Xradman:
It was not done for pin=ponging half as much as it was done to keep users from inserting their own preferencces to the database. The filmmakers supplied the data, i hoope you aren't suggesting that you, DVDSpot, or HKMDb know more than the people who actually were involved in ptoducing the film. That is the baseline, where we go from that baseline is another story. I would like for you or someone to tell me the last movie that you or your site recommendations had any kind of hand in. What you chose do locally is YOUR business but without some sort of a baseline dataset which unifies the Online data it would be a bigger mess than we have right now. Have you bothered to look at the mess that is IMDb, they are getting better very slowly, but they are still a train wreck filled gross inaccuracies...all caused by out of control users.
Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Forget_the_Rest: Quote:
I can't provide details for other programs but could you clarify something for me -
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
DVDSpot
All cast and crew had to be selected from a drop down list. If there was someone who wasn't in the database, you had to request that that person be added. The addition was then approved by a moderator who would add it to the master name database. Master name was taken either from the requested form or created by the moderator. There was no "as credited" field.
Pros: everything cross-linked
Cons: cast list was often not complete
Does that mean that for actors who have been known under more than one name, ie Dwayne Johnson, they are only listed under one name for all of their films? Yes, only 1 name per actor or crew. I don't remember how he was credited, it might have been Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Dr Pavlov: Quote:
Xradman:
It was not done for pin=ponging half as much as it was done to keep users from inserting their own preferencces to the database. The filmmakers supplied the data, i hoope you aren't suggesting that you, DVDSpot, or HKMDb know more than the people who actually were involved in ptoducing the film. That is the baseline, where we go from that baseline is another story. I would like for you or someone to tell me the last movie that you or your site recommendations had any kind of hand in. What you chose do locally is YOUR business but without some sort of a baseline dataset which unifies the Online data it would be a bigger mess than we have right now. Have you bothered to look at the mess that is IMDb, they are getting better very slowly, but they are still a train wreck filled gross inaccuracies...all caused by out of control users.
Skip Skip, With respect, I must say that IMDB is far more accurate in terms of cross linking actors and crew than the current DVDP. Something must be done because I think we can all agree that the current online database is a mess. | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Most of the other DVD cataloging software that I'm aware of simply rakes online data from sites like IMDb, etc.
In the perfect world, Profiler would have a comprehensive master cast/crew database and each record would have entries for the various aliases associated with a particular actor. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.
I will say that, once you get all your linking done, it's not too horrible to maintain. What throws me off the most is when I get a new box set or TV series. Effectively, I have to go through the entire profile myself and these sets take a lot of time. |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,328 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting mdnitoil: Quote:
Most of the other DVD cataloging software that I'm aware of simply rakes online data from sites like IMDb, etc.
In the perfect world, Profiler would have a comprehensive master cast/crew database and each record would have entries for the various aliases associated with a particular actor. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.
I will say that, once you get all your linking done, it's not too horrible to maintain. What throws me off the most is when I get a new box set or TV series. Effectively, I have to go through the entire profile myself and these sets take a lot of time. 2 that I mentioned are/were user built databases. Aren't programs like DVD Aficionado user built? | | | | My Home Theater |
| | Registered: March 14, 2007 | | Posts: 1,777 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
2 that I mentioned are/were user built databases. Aren't programs like DVD Aficionado user built? Well, Aficionado might also be user built. You are only comparing to online collection solutions, however the bulk of the competitive software is packaged standalone. Many of these programs tend to point to your favorite data site and let you copy and paste. I can't say much about the remaining online solutions as I haven't bothered with them. Plus they don't seem to stick around for very long. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | Reputation:  | | Posts: 13,202 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Skip,
With respect, I must say that IMDB is far more accurate in terms of cross linking actors and crew than the current DVDP. Something must be done because I think we can all agree that the current online database is a mess. That's because IMDb started out as a film database. If you couldn't cross link the cast and crew, it would have been a useless db. This software, on the other hand, started out as collection software. As with every piece of collection software I have seen, all the fields were designed to to contain data unique to each individual item. I don't know if this software will ever have the same capabilities as IMDb. | | | No dictator, no invader can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever.
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom.
Against this power, governments and tyrants and armies cannot stand.
The Centauri learned this lesson once.
We will teach it to them again.
Though it take a thousand years, we will be free.
- Citizen G'Kar |
| | Registered: July 31, 2008 | | Reputation: | | Posts: 2,506 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Yes, only 1 name per actor or crew. I don't remember how he was credited, it might have been Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. Thanks. I can definitely say that I wouldn't like that system. I like to know how an actor has changed over the years. |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Reputation: |  Posts: 3,197 |
| | Posted: | | | | The big difference between Profiler and IMDb is that IMDb is a movie database on a per film level whereas Profiler tries to be a movie database on a per disc level. It is a very good disc profiler though, but if I want to look up cast and crew, I still go to IMDb. | | | | First registered: February 15, 2002 |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting xradman: Quote:
Quoting Dr Pavlov:
Quote:
Xradman:
It was not done for pin=ponging half as much as it was done to keep users from inserting their own preferencces to the database. The filmmakers supplied the data, i hoope you aren't suggesting that you, DVDSpot, or HKMDb know more than the people who actually were involved in ptoducing the film. That is the baseline, where we go from that baseline is another story. I would like for you or someone to tell me the last movie that you or your site recommendations had any kind of hand in. What you chose do locally is YOUR business but without some sort of a baseline dataset which unifies the Online data it would be a bigger mess than we have right now. Have you bothered to look at the mess that is IMDb, they are getting better very slowly, but they are still a train wreck filled gross inaccuracies...all caused by out of control users.
Skip
Skip,
With respect, I must say that IMDB is far more accurate in terms of cross linking actors and crew than the current DVDP. Something must be done because I think we can all agree that the current online database is a mess. Xradman: I would argue that the fundamental database at IMDb is totally unsound and therefore anything derived from it is likewise unsound and not to be trusted. In that area we have it all over any other database. The foundation of profiler is solid, the linking is not the foundation of the program it is a product of that foundation, and in my opinion has been executed poorly as it depends on user input to determine a Priority name, and that is flawed in and of itself as I have previously discussed, and i believe will remain so as long as it is utterly dependent on the accuracy of the user input to determine the answer. The linking system is essentially a local function, at any rate, derived from shared data, but I believe there are much better ways to execute this issue. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
| | Registered: March 13, 2007 | | Posts: 21,610 |
| | Posted: | | | | Quoting Unicus69: Quote:
Quoting xradman:
Quote:
Skip,
With respect, I must say that IMDB is far more accurate in terms of cross linking actors and crew than the current DVDP. Something must be done because I think we can all agree that the current online database is a mess.
That's because IMDb started out as a film database. If you couldn't cross link the cast and crew, it would have been a useless db. This software, on the other hand, started out as collection software. As with every piece of collection software I have seen, all the fields were designed to to contain data unique to each individual item.
I don't know if this software will ever have the same capabilities as IMDb. Nor should it, IMDb already exists why does it need to cloned. I don't trust them for ANYTHING. They don't make movies, but either the Db Admins or the users believe that they know more about a movie than the people who actually produced said movie, with the result being gross errors in accuracy of the data of all sorts. Skip | | | ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here
Billy Video |
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